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CockroachDB beta-20161013

jepsen.io

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Re: CockroachDB beta-20161013

#131

Post by 9935c101ab17a66 »

dijit wrote: post #123

I wish everyone would stop bikeshedding the damn name. From my perspective I'm glad something that's trying to do this is coming into existence. a couple years ago I was given the arduous task of ensuring that we never lost data. One of the requirements was that: At any time, any server can (and will) fail.. if you acknowledge that you have data then you MUST never lose it. You cannot imagine how many database soluti…

It's not bikeshedding at all. It looks like a good solution, but many people have concerns about an inability to use it because of management/clients and the connotation of the name. That's a legitimate concern. Don't just hand wave it away.

Re: CockroachDB beta-20161013

#132

Post by jdcarter »

corndoge wrote: post #111
jdcarter wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely the name is holding them back. In my case it prevents me from championing the product within my company. Going to the executives and saying "we're going to put our most precious data into Cockroach" simply won't fly. Any discussion of features will be for naught; I know the CEO will make a "no" decision as soon as he hears the name. To any Cockroach Labs folks who might read this: please give me (and all o…

If it's not too much trouble you might consider looking for a new job if management is that obtuse.

Everybody makes decisions using both emotion and reason. This is why successful products speak to both the heart and the mind of the customer. Said another way, this is why the marketing department is just as essential to a company's success as the engineering department.

I've worked with my company's executive team for quite a while, and they're not obtuse. They are human, however. When I go to them and suggest we trust our data to a new, up-and-coming database, I'm asking quite a lot. The cost of failure is extremely high, so I need to convince them at both an emotional and rational level that the risk is worth it. But when the conversation starts, "let me tell you about Cockroach..." I'm already starting from behind.

The reason so many people are fussing about CockroachDB's name is because there's such a huge dissonance between a product that looks fantastic on its technical merits but has a name that triggers terrible images. Have you ever lived in a house with roaches? That's the kind of thing that wedges in your mind in the "never again" category.

Re: CockroachDB beta-20161013

#133

Post by dijit »

throwawasiudy wrote: post #129
dijit wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to be the dissenting voice here and say: Use whatever name you like as long as it isn't something like cuntbagDB. CockroachDB accurately and immediately conveys meaning. It'll survive when nuclear war happens just like a cockroach. And I might work in the games industry but I would never have a hard time selling this. I would basically force them to use it and explain the benefits. If your company wont adop…

It's not my company or me, it's my clients. Here's a sort of long winded story explaining what I mean that the corporate world can't use anything with the name "cockroach". If you disagree after reading, I'm open for a friendly debate. Average project, some 60 year old VP signing off on 100k of custom software with 8 pages of lawyer speak contracts is NOT going to allow "his" project to run off of "cockroach database…

If your VP isn't trusting his technical directors to make appropriate choices when producing quality reliable software and infrastructure then I would say that is a problem with company culture.

I wouldn't have a problem selling the technical merits of a highly consistent database to a technical director. So everything else is moot to me.

I agree about the "bug" association, that is a negative stigma that I could see attached to it- but there are plenty of projects who have stupid names which pass by unnoticed.

take distro release names; Beefy Miracle.. Wheezy.. Natty Narwahl.

And these terms are used internally too. "Oh, that machine was running Squeeze and not Jessie which is why we can't install the latest gdb" etc;

You're giving this much more credence than it will have in real life.

Re: CockroachDB beta-20161013

#134

Post by floatboth »

dijit wrote: post #130
Perignon wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not bikeshedding. Who the fuck wants to work for a company called Cockroach Labs? Seriously, sure your tech friends and recruiters might appreciate it on your resume but anyone outside of tech? Applying for an apartment, mortgage, car, lol good luck. And also not too sure that anyone outside the immediate tech/startup nerd scene would appreciate it other. That aside why the hell do I want to thing of cockroaches…

Nobody is going to give a flying fuck what your company is named on a mortgage application. Honestly there are companies with _much_ worse names in active use like "Dick & Daughters"[0] or "Ismail ANUS"[1] who even got an appointment to the queen. Seriously, it's bikeshedding, and the point of the DB is that you don't think about it all day. I also don't think of women called Cassandra when I use the database of the…

Just one Dick, not "Dicks", and you posted the same link twice :D

Re: CockroachDB beta-20161013

#136

Post by seahckr »

aphyr wrote: post #12
vonklaus wrote: post #10

Wow. Probably fundraising and getting out front of googles new consumer spanner service. I just started experimenting w/ cockroachdb and it sounds/seems great. They def are campaigning hard, landing a Jepsen test and a lot of posts/articles last couple. I am pulling for them over G on principle. I infer they know people at Stripe where the Rethink team & Aphyr are so hopefully they can learn from them and build an aw…

Just as a headsup, I left Stripe in late 2015 to run Jepsen as an independent consultancy.

big fan of your work! Thank you

Re: CockroachDB beta-20161013

#137

Post by throwawasiudy »

dijit wrote: post #133
throwawasiudy wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not my company or me, it's my clients. Here's a sort of long winded story explaining what I mean that the corporate world can't use anything with the name "cockroach". If you disagree after reading, I'm open for a friendly debate. Average project, some 60 year old VP signing off on 100k of custom software with 8 pages of lawyer speak contracts is NOT going to allow "his" project to run off of "cockroach database…

If your VP isn't trusting his technical directors to make appropriate choices when producing quality reliable software and infrastructure then I would say that is a problem with company culture. I wouldn't have a problem selling the technical merits of a highly consistent database to a technical director. So everything else is moot to me. I agree about the "bug" association, that is a negative stigma that I could see…

Fair enough, we can disagree cordially on this one. I agree that it shouldn't matter but we disagree that it does.

The other names you mentioned have a more silly connotation then bad or gross but I understand your point.

I will still serve as an example of somebody that will avoid cockroach db due to name alone so there's at least one of us out there

Re: CockroachDB beta-20161013

#138

Post by renegadesensei »

andrewchambers wrote: post #98
renegadesensei wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely agree. I specialize in distributed databases and I have zero interest in even learning about CockroachDB. Could be the greatest technology ever and I will never know. Is that irrational? Sure. But I'm a busy man with plenty of tech to learn about and limited time. I detest roaches and do not want to think about them at all when I am working. Might as well have named it with an ethnic slur.

You seem to specialize in willful ignorance and bike shedding to me.

While you specialize in presumptuous ad hominem attacks against strangers on the internet. I like my vice better.

Re: CockroachDB beta-20161013

#139

Post by Scaevolus »

will_pseudonym wrote: post #14

CockroachDB might be the worst product name I've come across. I get it; cockroaches are extremely hardy, but they're also much more strongly associated with uncleanliness and disease. EDIT: Also, cockroaches are BUGS! Bugs cause problems in computer systems.

The founders of Cockroach Labs are also the creators of GIMP.

Re: CockroachDB beta-20161013

#140

Post by dijit »

floatboth wrote: post #134
dijit wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is going to give a flying fuck what your company is named on a mortgage application. Honestly there are companies with _much_ worse names in active use like "Dick & Daughters"[0] or "Ismail ANUS"[1] who even got an appointment to the queen. Seriously, it's bikeshedding, and the point of the DB is that you don't think about it all day. I also don't think of women called Cassandra when I use the database of the…

Just one Dick, not "Dicks", and you posted the same link twice :D

oops, thanks for pointing that out.
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