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I’ll never bring my phone on an international flight again. Neither should you

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Re: I’ll never bring my phone on an international flight again. Neither should you

#81

Post by caconym_ »

We're really talking about access to accounts (e.g. gmail), not the devices themselves (or the former is of more interest, anyway). What's to stop these agents from simply demanding you turn over your email/facebook/whatever credentials, regardless of whether you're carrying electronics on your person?

IIRC they're actually already demanding Facebook credentials from certain travelers.

Unless you literally have no internet accounts, or what you do use is obscure enough to give you plausible deniability, it seems like you're fucked either way.

Re: I’ll never bring my phone on an international flight again. Neither should you

#82

Post by derefr »

WWKong wrote: post #43

I'm thinking not bringing the phone or deleting all apps before landing won't help much if they ask you to login into your accounts on a computer (or stay detained for hours if you refuse or claim that you don't use facebook/email, your pick).

All these cases always seem to boil down to what should be a very old precedent: is an officer of the law allowed to demand that you contact an associate to which you've entrusted a possession, and tell them to send it to you?

Assuming that the law has no legal power to compel the associate to co-operate, is it then legal for said officer of the law to detain you if said associate—just of their own accord—decides not to cooperate?

(For example: I put all my money in a Russian bank. An IRS officer demands that I retrieve it so they can tax it. The Russian bank says that its policies prevent it from sending money to people who are making requests under duress, and so nothing I could say or do at that point would ever make them send the money. The US has no treaty enabling them to go through diplomatic channels to put pressure on the Russian bank. What happens?)

Re: I’ll never bring my phone on an international flight again. Neither should you

#83

Post by greenhatman »

eridius wrote: post #59
WWKong wrote: post #43

I'm thinking not bringing the phone or deleting all apps before landing won't help much if they ask you to login into your accounts on a computer (or stay detained for hours if you refuse or claim that you don't use facebook/email, your pick).

Can they even ask you to do that? My understanding was searching your phone is allowed because that's treated similarly to searching your luggage. But you're not carrying your facebook or email accounts with you, so I don't see why they'd have any right whatsoever to demand to "search" your facebook/email. Or is this something they've already started doing? And if so, what makes it legal?

Yea, why would they need to. Can't they just get a subpoena to make Facebook and Google give them your info?

Re: I’ll never bring my phone on an international flight again. Neither should you

#84

Post by ue_ »

sbarre wrote: post #55
achamayou wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's completely speculative, there is no documented instance of another country doing the same at the moment.

Canada has done it (it's even linked in the article).

Canada also makes it illegal to import various pornographic materials depicting drawings of fictional characters, and certain sex dolls. An American had his laptop searched at ths Canadian border, and was detained, for example.

Re: I’ll never bring my phone on an international flight again. Neither should you

#85

Post by dkersten »

mertevinski wrote: post #35
donald123 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One can refuse whatever way they want, but he/she can be detained and the device forfeited. And for non-citizens, they can be denied entry to US.

It is so easy for the 'bad guys' to carry a burner phone with fake google, Facebook, twitter, etc, accounts and log into them when requested. That way they don't have to refuse anything and there is nothing suspicious. This policy harms law abiding citizens and travelers but is completely ineffective when it comes to stopping criminals.

Just like most other "national security" procedures.

Re: I’ll never bring my phone on an international flight again. Neither should you

#86

Post by tylerhou »

problems wrote: post #74
Asooka wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if they use standardised tools those would probably have the capability of dumping your entire flash since someone would want to do so.

I don't think border security agents are dumping your entire flash - they're mostly just say, thumbing through messages to make sure you're not attempting to work illegally while on a vacation visa. Dumping your entire flash would take a serious amount of time and would be so varied from device to device that it'd likely be impossible in practice.

Also presumably your actual data would be encrypted.

Re: I’ll never bring my phone on an international flight again. Neither should you

#87

Post by maxerickson »

MichaelGG wrote: post #72
mertevinski wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is so easy for the 'bad guys' to carry a burner phone with fake google, Facebook, twitter, etc, accounts and log into them when requested. That way they don't have to refuse anything and there is nothing suspicious. This policy harms law abiding citizens and travelers but is completely ineffective when it comes to stopping criminals.

The majority of "criminals" CBP deals with each day are people coming in on the wrong visa. Saying tourist but having no plans to leave, or planning to work, for example. This system will be very effective there: Turn on phone, see text "baby can't wait for you, we're finally gonna be living together", question why their boyfriend is writing them that and why they didn't mention it, deny entry. I don't think anyone r…

We have ~40 million foreign arrivals each year:

http://travel.trade.gov/view/m-2016-I-001/table1.asp

And apparently ~500,000 Visa overstays.

How many of the 40 million should we put off traveling here to catch a fraction of the 500,000? What ratio of turned away violators to hassled travelers is "very effective"?

Re: I’ll never bring my phone on an international flight again. Neither should you

#89

Post by AnOscelot »

INTPenis wrote: post #34
marcuskaz wrote: post #5

You most likely will need your phone when you're traveling, an easier solution is to remove all apps and data on the phone and then reinstall when you get to where you want.

My thought was actually to shut it off and pack it in my luggage so it's not with me through security. I won't see it until I reach the baggage claim.

I've had something stolen from TSA-inspected checked luggage. If you pack your phone, keep that possibility in mind.

Re: I’ll never bring my phone on an international flight again. Neither should you

#90

Post by superkuh »

caconym_ wrote: post #81

We're really talking about access to accounts (e.g. gmail), not the devices themselves (or the former is of more interest, anyway). What's to stop these agents from simply demanding you turn over your email/facebook/whatever credentials, regardless of whether you're carrying electronics on your person? IIRC they're actually already demanding Facebook credentials from certain travelers. Unless you literally have no in…

Well, you've stated the solution. Don't have a gmail account. Don't have a facebook account. Don't use centralized services. It's not that hard once you start.
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