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What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

arstechnica.com

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Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#251

Post by iak8god »

tptacek wrote: post #3

Worth remembering: US citizens can play chicken with CBP and lose nothing more than their computer/phone hardware (perhaps having it returned 6 months later). But non-citizens, possibly including LPRs, cannot: if an alien attempts to cross the border with a device they can't unlock "because they don't have the corresponding 2FA token with them" (as one friend suggested they do), they'll be detained, their devices con…

> The current best practice for border crossings --- really anywhere in the world --- is simply not to carry anything you're unwilling to unlock for Customs.

This seems like a perfect use case for TrueCrypt hidden volumes or similar: https://www.howtogeek.com/109210/the-htg-guide-to-hiding-you...

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#252

Post by [deleted] »

corey_moncure wrote: post #202
graeme wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

--> The current best practice for border crossings --- really anywhere in the world --- is simply not to carry anything you're unwilling to unlock for Customs. How do password managers play into this? I'm likely going to be traveling to the US on business. I'll be bringing a travel phone rather than a normal phone (This is my standard travel practice for any country). I could do the same with a computer. I don't mind…

Encrypt your password store using gpg and zx2c4's pass! The GUI app qtpass even works on Windows. I've been using it for months and the system is rock solid and has never let me down. https://www.passwordstore.org/ They can copy your drive all you want, and you have until 2030 to change your passwords. Alternatively, just store them in a git repo on a server somewhere and access them remotely.

[deleted]

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#253

Post by oblio »

coldtea wrote: post #216
perch56 wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see you mentioned Eastern Europe but only include Russia. Eastern Europe includes many other countries open to LGBT communities. Don't always believe the news headlines as they tend to exaggerate. Hungary and Romania have done big efforts towards this, still churches have a lot to say but peoples mentality changed, accepting diversity.

> Hungary and Romania have done big efforts towards this, still churches have a lot to say but peoples mentality changed, accepting diversity. Really? Try talking to locals there not just about gays but also about refugees or even gypsies...

You're mixing up blatant discrimination (the first category) with two very complicated social problems.

People aren't necessarily against refugees, per se, but more against the idea of accepting anyone who declares himself to be a refugee, without checking that he is, in fact, one. Things are made worse by a few "refugee" cases where the "refugees" preferred to move away and live as illegal immigrants in Germany than as legal refugees in Hungary or Romania (a status which includes state aid, as meager as it may be in these countries).

The third point is really complicated and it does include discrimination but also a lack of trust and respect for the others from both sides. A lot of it has to do with the difficulties of integrating a very tight-knit nomadic culture into a modern, sedentary society where property rights are clear and respected.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#254

Post by dingaling »

lb1lf wrote: post #83

Question: what would happen if you are asked to unlock your device and you refuse on the grounds that it contains classified material? Presumably they wouldn't just shrug and say 'OK, then' - but neither could they (if the classifying authority was one they cared about - say, NATO) just say 'Tough luck, now unlock it!', right?

If you do have classified material about which the USA has an interest in protecting you'll probably be on a G-* or NATO visa. Rather different entry experience.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#255

Post by Steuard »

iak8god wrote: post #251
tptacek wrote: post #3

Worth remembering: US citizens can play chicken with CBP and lose nothing more than their computer/phone hardware (perhaps having it returned 6 months later). But non-citizens, possibly including LPRs, cannot: if an alien attempts to cross the border with a device they can't unlock "because they don't have the corresponding 2FA token with them" (as one friend suggested they do), they'll be detained, their devices con…

> The current best practice for border crossings --- really anywhere in the world --- is simply not to carry anything you're unwilling to unlock for Customs. This seems like a perfect use case for TrueCrypt hidden volumes or similar: https://www.howtogeek.com/109210/the-htg-guide-to-hiding-you...

I thought so, too. But the advice I've seen, quite strongly, is that you do not want to lie to federal officials about anything, ever. Even if you're just using a hidden volume on principle rather than hiding some terrible wrongdoing, the moment you say "No, I don't have any other hidden files on here" or "There, you have access to all my files now" you've committed a federal crime. If they spot the slightest evidence showing that you've lied (which, heck, might not mean much more than finding TrueCrypt installed), they'll throw the book at you.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#256

Post by tmalsburg2 »

tptacek wrote: post #3

Worth remembering: US citizens can play chicken with CBP and lose nothing more than their computer/phone hardware (perhaps having it returned 6 months later). But non-citizens, possibly including LPRs, cannot: if an alien attempts to cross the border with a device they can't unlock "because they don't have the corresponding 2FA token with them" (as one friend suggested they do), they'll be detained, their devices con…

What are they going to do if you say you don't have a facebook account? (True in my case.) Seems difficult to verify.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#257

Post by benchaney »

bflesch wrote: post #160
danbruc wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if the software or procedures do a reasonable job at selecting people. It is hard to tell from the outside whether this is the case but the cases that became publicly known at least suggest that the system is not flawless and also seems to pick people with opinions or doing things the US disapproves but which are not illegal. How much information must be provided is certainly debatable. Article 9 continues as fo…

I am astonished by your entitlement. The state has no obligation to tell you about the inner workings of their selection / profiling process. All that counts is safety of its citizens. If I'm not a citizen and representatives of the country I want to enter tell me that they think I am a risk, the systems actually works. Of all these one-sided stories we are hearing one wonders about what kind of darknet "activism" so…

Requiring the government to justify human rights abuses isn't entitlement. It is common sense.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#258

Post by gph »

Zak wrote: post #234
gph wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, nice. The Government/Law enforcement harassing dissidents at the border is definitely equivalent to the Nazis rounding up and executing political and religious minorities. /s Not to make light of this issue, it's a serious matter, but don't be ridiculous.

I'm not sure it's ridiculous to suggest that failing to stop law the misuse of law enforcement tools to harass dissidents early invites worse oppression later. These things have a way of ratcheting up until they get significant push back.

Maybe. Seems like the FBI and federal agencies were harassing dissidents a lot worse in the 60s and 70s through COINTELPRO than they are now. I don't know if it's really worse now so much as different with new avenues of harassment into our digital lives. You think dissidents weren't harassed at the border before everyone carried a cell phone?

The post I was replying to was basically a vague reference to creeping fascism/nazism, and then implying that the same is happening in the US and that we're on the brink of descending into nazism. It's stupid sophomoric comparison to make.

Yea we should fight back against this type of legal harassment. Sure it's similar to how nazis once operated. But what does that comparison really provide in this situation other than throwing FUD onto it. Do you really think the US is about to rise into the Fourth Reich? I mean seriously... even if you feel like Trump is the antichrist, this policy undoubtedly came into effect during the Bush/Obama years when laptops and cell phones became ubiquitous.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#259

Post by [deleted] »

deong wrote: post #241
graeme wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. Since they may ask for social media passwords, would that imply making a travel profile for my travel devices that has password access to things like Facebook and a subset of sites I'd need, but not necessarily all 400+ of my logins? I don't care if they login to my Facebook (well, I think I don't). I just don't want to have them have everything , because then I'd have to change it all. To be very clear, not p…

It doesn't matter what you have in your password manager. If you're not a US citizen, they can demand your facebook access. If you don't have it, can't unencrypt it, or just feel like telling them to fuck off doesn't matter. You have no legal right to enter the country except with their permission, and they may well tell the person who didn't put their facebook passwords in the password manager to get back on a plane…

[deleted]

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#260

Post by tptacek »

tmalsburg2 wrote: post #256
tptacek wrote: post #3

Worth remembering: US citizens can play chicken with CBP and lose nothing more than their computer/phone hardware (perhaps having it returned 6 months later). But non-citizens, possibly including LPRs, cannot: if an alien attempts to cross the border with a device they can't unlock "because they don't have the corresponding 2FA token with them" (as one friend suggested they do), they'll be detained, their devices con…

What are they going to do if you say you don't have a facebook account? (True in my case.) Seems difficult to verify.

Nothing. But if you do have a Facebook account, and you're not a citizen, you should bank on them knowing that you're lying about that. Further: saying something will conflict with automated information gathering they'll have done beforehand will put you in a different bracket of suspicion. Most people will just tell them, most people will just unlock. They're going to be interested mostly in the oddballs (for better or worse).
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