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5G Network end-to-end demonstration by Ericsson

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Re: 5G Network end-to-end demonstration by Ericsson

#51
Does anyone else restrict their phones to 3G because 4G (real 4G) eats through your data cap too fast?

If I accidentally load a large video/gif/website, It's easier to back out then let it eat my data.

I'm also noticing that with similar usage, my same apps are eating much more data than they used to a couple years ago. Twitter, Facebook, Maps. I could live on 500MB/mo, now 2GB/mo is not enough.

Re: 5G Network end-to-end demonstration by Ericsson

#52
Joe Armstrong had a fun talk about the general setup how it works in 2014:

https://youtu.be/rQIE22e0cW8?t=603

Then it was still in the labs as a prototype. He talks about some of the limitation, the history (3G, 4G, 5G) and how it all set up. It is mostly in the context of building reactive systems and this was just the intro bit.

Also fun fact: since Ericsson controls more than half of the market in smartphone internet gateways and most of those run Erlang. If Erlang stops working, no more cat videos for anyone on their phones.

Re: 5G Network end-to-end demonstration by Ericsson

#53
post #44

These days with 4G i do find that it is not the technology that is the bottleneck. It is the carierers trying to hold on to their business model. I would prefer if we aimed our research on increasing coverage.

Carriers do max out the capacity of many cell towers. Remember that it's you and dozens of other people (at least) concurrently downloading stuff over the same tower. Scarcity is a fact of life, and the bandwidth has to be allocated somehow. I do wonder how it would work if we did some sort of high-speed dynamic bidding for bandwidth, rather than a constant fee. It could actually be very helpful; it would incentivize…

> allow customers to directly "feel the pain" of bloated downloads and websites We already do, because our transfer speeds suck under congestion.

Re: 5G Network end-to-end demonstration by Ericsson

#54

Does anyone else restrict their phones to 3G because 4G (real 4G) eats through your data cap too fast? If I accidentally load a large video/gif/website, It's easier to back out then let it eat my data. I'm also noticing that with similar usage, my same apps are eating much more data than they used to a couple years ago. Twitter, Facebook, Maps. I could live on 500MB/mo, now 2GB/mo is not enough.

4G saves your battery. you could limit the speed through an app:

http://www.phonearena.com/news/Bandwidth-Ruler-for-Android-l...

Re: 5G Network end-to-end demonstration by Ericsson

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even 4G (LTE) is typically end to end encrypted. Unsure what you are trying to say or if you're just trolling.

As someone that has written code to pick up the encryption keys out of the Diameter protocol, and used those to decrypt the control plane NAS signaling on the S1 interface, correlated this info with the user plane data between a S-GW and P-GW - no - LTE is not end to end encrypted. There's encryption between your mobile and a few nodes within the core network of your carrier - inside that network, you can easily brea…

It's a bit of a silly question. End-to-End is TLS. One end has to be the phone, and your other end is your destination host.

Encryption through some part of the middle is only useful on the radio side -- the rest of the network is wired and has the same ("meh"-) level of security.

Re: 5G Network end-to-end demonstration by Ericsson

#56
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free nights and weekends is exactly anti-net-neutrality. I have always been an advocate for more, open, spectrum, and simple laws to outlaw intentional interference. We are not operating dumb radios - we can dynamically change or allocate spectrum channels to load balance congestion and avoid making it worse. To legally cordon off everyone into separate silos is a hatchet solution to a nuanced problem with much bette…

I can't think of a reason why free nights and weekends would be anti-net neutrality.

One simple example would be Verizon only allowing free nights and weekends to certain services. For example, Verizon allows free night and weekend data usage for Hulu but not for any other streaming video services. This is a huge loss to Netflix, Amazon Video, YouTube and any other streaming services, including those whom don't yet exist since it would be harder to gain users due to the newer service "using more data" than using Hulu (read: the Verizon subsidized alternative).

At least, I'm assuming that's what OP meant. Not simply that "free nights and weekends" would be anti-net neutrality on its own, but that it could very easily be made more proprietary than it initially sounds. And we've seen it done in the past when free nights and weekends were were restricted to those within your telco, the x-amount of people within your network that are free to call[I believe AT&T made it 10?], the free mobile to mobile that was eventually restricted to free mobile to mobile only within the same telco again, etc., etc.

Re: 5G Network end-to-end demonstration by Ericsson

#57
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free nights and weekends is exactly anti-net-neutrality. I have always been an advocate for more, open, spectrum, and simple laws to outlaw intentional interference. We are not operating dumb radios - we can dynamically change or allocate spectrum channels to load balance congestion and avoid making it worse. To legally cordon off everyone into separate silos is a hatchet solution to a nuanced problem with much bette…

I can't think of a reason why free nights and weekends would be anti-net neutrality.

"Net neutrality" is a problematic term because it seems to mean different things to different people depending on their perspective/motive. For instance, I've seen arguments that T-Mobile not charging for SD video streams is net neutral because any company is allowed to get into the program.

In its strictest (and IMO, most useful) sense, "net neutrality" is the concept that data is data is data. It doesn't matter whether it's carrying video or whether it's carrying text, whether that comes from Google or whether it comes from the server in your basement, or whether it's being transferred at 11am or at 11pm.

IMO that definition is the most useful because it's the clearest - anything else ends up getting into some debate about why this applies and that doesn't. I'd very much like to keep my neutral internet connection - the creeping preferentialism on my cellphone connection is not welcome.

Re: 5G Network end-to-end demonstration by Ericsson

#58
post #5

I hope that the network vendors and the IoT vendors sit down and think about how the devices and the network can work to mitigate things like large-scale IoT DDoS etc. Even if this mean new protocoling or whatever. I'm not sure I'm thinking about this exactly correctly, but I feel there is something in there?

Cellular IoT doesn't really have the problem seen with Mirai & co DDoS attacks. A cellular device is attached to a cellular network first, and for many application are not even on the Internet.

In 3GPP cellular IoT (2G/GPRS, 3G/UMTS to HSPA, 4G/LTE) it is very common for devices to be on what's called a private APN. It's a private IP network, and the cellular operator provides a VPN access to this private network to let the managing company access the devices from their application servers. Only the application servers can access the devices, which are not on the Internet. In practice this removes the risk of remote attacks on the devices (if you either hacked the telco or service operators and can get to the devices, you already could get to more interesting stuff like aggregated data). This has been available since GPRS and will also apply to 5G --- no difference at this level.

Of course the flip side of this model is that the end customer must go through the device associated service provider to get to the device. It may not be acceptable to all, but when it is using a private APN is really a very effective way to kill remote attacks on cellular IoT devices.

Even for devices not using a private APN but having Internet access, the operator is still in between and could do ad-hoc filtering if called for. Another factor is that tier 1 telco operator tend to require support for FOTA (Firmware update Over The Air), so cellular IoT devices can be remotely upgraded.

With all this cellular IoT is in a much better situation for security than LAN-based IoT. It's also more expansive.

Re: 5G Network end-to-end demonstration by Ericsson

#59
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free nights and weekends is exactly anti-net-neutrality. I have always been an advocate for more, open, spectrum, and simple laws to outlaw intentional interference. We are not operating dumb radios - we can dynamically change or allocate spectrum channels to load balance congestion and avoid making it worse. To legally cordon off everyone into separate silos is a hatchet solution to a nuanced problem with much bette…

I can't think of a reason why free nights and weekends would be anti-net neutrality.

Smaller or up-and-coming carriers can't always afford to give away their service for free, whereas larger carriers can offset the losses more easily.

Edit to clarify, it's more "anti-competitive" than "anti-net neutrality"

Re: 5G Network end-to-end demonstration by Ericsson

#60

> The 5G New Radio (NR) used 800MHz bandwidth, running on 15GHz Wow, 15Ghz signals are going to really suck for building penetration...

Yes. The issue is mitigated by massive beam-forming. Thanks to the high frequency antennas are small and it's possible to use many of them to steer a narrow beam toward the device. The antenna gain compensates for the pretty tough link budget at those high frequencies.

For the number of antennas, I've seen anything from 64 to 1024 (amazing...). Even then millimeter waves are only for short distances (Of course, a very narrow beam makes life very interesting with mobile devices ;) But one of the first application of mmWaves should be last mile access, where this is not an issue. With this, fiber is required close to the home but the most costly last hundred meters can use wireless. This should reduce cost while still supporting very high throughput. TBC.

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