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What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

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Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#211

Post by bflesch »

danbruc wrote: post #196
bflesch wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am astonished by your entitlement. The state has no obligation to tell you about the inner workings of their selection / profiling process. All that counts is safety of its citizens. If I'm not a citizen and representatives of the country I want to enter tell me that they think I am a risk, the systems actually works. Of all these one-sided stories we are hearing one wonders about what kind of darknet "activism" so…

I would be kind of okay with this if I could just turn around. We think you are a risk, either show us your phone - and we may or may not allow you to enter after looking at it - or take the next airplane home. It would be nice, if you would tell me this before I waste my time and money to go on the flight so that I can decide in advance if I am willing to find out how looking at my phone will influence your assessme…

The country you're travelling to doesn't owe you anything. In some areas of the world, border guards will shoot or rob you.

If you don't take part in any shit that annoys the powers that be, you will most likely never be approached by border guards at all. I really think that as citizens of the western world we are in no position to argue that travelling between countries is bad or cumbersome for us.

Edit: To answer your reply, it is not a human right to be allowed to go into a certain country.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#213

Post by coldtea »

dave_sullivan wrote: post #149
soft_dev_person wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I pretty much decided to never travel to the US again the first time I heard you may be compelled to unlock your Facebook profile for the customs. Not because I have something particular to hide, but as a gay person in a hostile world I have learned to care about my privacy. Not a huge loss for me, not a huge loss for the US, but it accumulates.

I agree with you. Asia and Eastern Europe are off the list for me too. China is willing to kidnap people out of Thailand [1]; people being arrested over political tweets [2]; Russia can poison people [3], shoot them [4], or have them accused of fake crimes[5]. I really hope the U.S. never comes close to this and hope I see this trend reversed in my lifetime. But people should be aware that it can happen in a modern s…

>China is willing to kidnap people out of Thailand [1]; people being arrested over political tweets [2]; Russia can poison people [3], shoot them [4], or have them accused of fake crimes[5]. I really hope the U.S. never comes close to this

Well, the US can drone-kill people (including bystanders irrelevant to the primary non-tried target), abduct them from all over the world and transport them with no trial to Guantanamo, allows cops to shoot innocent people (e.g. for walking while black) at a record rate (compared to even developing world dictatorship standards) without much repercussions, and let's not get started with people forced to go to jail with BS accusations and plea deals or stuff like "three strikes" that can put people on life for ...stealing a pizza thrice.

Just because these people are not all local citizens or white, doesn't mean they are not wronged.

And all that's under Obama, so not much hope for those getting better under Trump...

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#214

Post by analogmemory »

This article [1] suggested to reset your phone to a blank slate before you hit customs and then reinstall after you're in. Not sure if that's going to help but I like the idea of the subtle middle finger.

[1] https://medium.freecodecamp.com/ill-never-bring-my-phone-on-...

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#215

Post by cr0sh »

mikeash wrote: post #125
purple-again wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ridiculous arguments don't foster rational debate. We know their are training camps abroad. We know there are no training camps within our borders. What if space aliens are controlling our leaders brains?

What's ridiculous about them? We've seen plenty of home-grown terrorism. I'm not sure if searching social media profiles would ever have prevented an attack in the US, for example, whereas internal checkpoints and random house searches certainly could have.

> whereas internal checkpoints and random house searches certainly could have.

I upvoted your original comment because I am pretty sure it was meant as sarcasm. I certainly hope I am still correct on that assessment.

There was a time, not long ago, certainly within my memory and the memories of many others - when we as a country (the USA as well as other countries) looked down upon such activities as being wholly un-American and against our values. We looked on in fear and concern as we heard about what went on in Eastern European countries behind the Iron Curtain - where people risked their lives and freedom braving bullets and who-knows-what-else attempting to cross that divide.

Some even made it. And we cheered when the wall fell.

WHAT THE FUCK HAS HAPPENED TO US?

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#216

Post by coldtea »

perch56 wrote: post #205
dave_sullivan wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you. Asia and Eastern Europe are off the list for me too. China is willing to kidnap people out of Thailand [1]; people being arrested over political tweets [2]; Russia can poison people [3], shoot them [4], or have them accused of fake crimes[5]. I really hope the U.S. never comes close to this and hope I see this trend reversed in my lifetime. But people should be aware that it can happen in a modern s…

I see you mentioned Eastern Europe but only include Russia. Eastern Europe includes many other countries open to LGBT communities. Don't always believe the news headlines as they tend to exaggerate. Hungary and Romania have done big efforts towards this, still churches have a lot to say but peoples mentality changed, accepting diversity.

>Hungary and Romania have done big efforts towards this, still churches have a lot to say but peoples mentality changed, accepting diversity.

Really? Try talking to locals there not just about gays but also about refugees or even gypsies...

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#217

Post by CalChris »

tptacek wrote: post #128
adekok wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Or, to simply stop traveling to countries that refuse to play nice with the rights of foreigners. s/foreigners/citizens/ i.e. everyone . I'm a Canadian Citizen. When I enter Canada from abroad, they claim the same rights as the US CBP. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/alain-philippon-cb...

I was detained and aggressively searched at the Canadian border (Montana/Alberta, for about 2 hours) in 1997; not because they thought I was a terrorist, but because they wanted to confirm that I wasn't coming to Canada to work. Friends of mine were turned back at the Canadian border later that same year. Canada has always claimed these rights.

I flew up to Vancouver for a wedding. I'd lived there before and strangely I was aggressively questioned at Canadian Customs.

Why are you here? A wedding. Where are you staying? 2400 Motel out on Kingsway. Oh, a site of known criminal activity.

I rolled my eyes. The bride chose it because it was an X-Files filming location.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#218

Post by westbywest »

M_Grey wrote: post #102
tptacek wrote: post #3

Worth remembering: US citizens can play chicken with CBP and lose nothing more than their computer/phone hardware (perhaps having it returned 6 months later). But non-citizens, possibly including LPRs, cannot: if an alien attempts to cross the border with a device they can't unlock "because they don't have the corresponding 2FA token with them" (as one friend suggested they do), they'll be detained, their devices con…

Solution: No Facebook (which is a solution to so many other problems too), partition and hide what you don't want browsed by some inept CBP agent, and then play your part in their security theatre. It might even be nice if someone could make some programs that offer false home screens for various devices that only open when a given password is input... your CBP "clean slate". Don't say, "I don't have x,y,z..." accoun…

Given that border agents may go as far as cloning hard drive contents, what advantage does an additional partition have? A thorough search may uncover the hidden/encrypted partition, which then becomes another item for which you'd be requested to provide "technical assistance."

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#219

Post by bflesch »

z5h wrote: post #208
bflesch wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you shouldn't expect to be let into any country. Take the flight back and return when you can actually unlock your phone.

This might actually be the preferred choice for some people who wish to attempt travel, but are unwilling to sacrifice personal private.

And? The target country doesn't lose anything through this if some entitled internet privacy advocates without big business stop travelling to it. Everyone who is serious about coming actually handles immigration/border tax like an adult.

Nobody cares about your private life unless you are trying to affect others negatively.

Re: What could happen if you refuse to unlock your phone at the US border?

#220

Post by anon2264 »

gph wrote: post #142
Zak wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is more an issue of practice than theory. Every country might claim the authority to search phones, but if they never actually use it, there is no concern entering those countries in a practical sense.

And considering that something like 0.01% of travelers into the US are ever affected by this, you could say in a practical sense there is no concern here either. That's basically a rounding error worth away from 0%. In fact it sounds more like they generally target specific individuals based on their politics or whatever red flag gets thrown on them from the system. That's certainly dangerous in a way, but in essence…

"First they came for a few people for their political beliefs, and I did not speak out because I was not one of those people..."

Do you know how that one ended?

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