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India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

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Re: India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

#211

Post by mgkimsal »

Kluny wrote: post #171
mgkimsal wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2 weeks ago on my way to work, I watched a guy pull off to the side of the road. He opened his car door, and just dumped trash out - a few small bags of trash. He had just driven past a gas station and convenience store - both with publicly accessible trash cans to throw stuff away - you don't even have to get out of your car. It's a bizarre mindset some people have - let me drive past the driver-accessible trash can…

That's awful. I'm fairly sure here in Canada, people would pick the trash up and chase you down the road with it. I've never seen it happen though.

I tried to get a picture of his car, but the sun was at too difficult of an angle. Another thought that made me pause about confronting him was guns. Yay, thanks rampant gun ownership - you certainly prevented an ugly confrontation there, as the idea that I might be shot for confronting someone about trash dumping prevented too much action on my part.

I'd posted in our local facebook community page, and 2 other interesting stories came up.

1. someone posted they'd seen something similar a few weeks earlier. They'd confronted the person, and the other person pulled a gun out and threatened them. I do not know if the original person involved police after that. While it might sound far-fetched to some, I live in the rural south of the US.

2. someone else posted a similar story, and had taken a picture of the person dumping trash in public and posted it to the facebook group. that poster was harassed online, with many people complaining that they were "violating the other person's privacy" by posting their picture online without consent.

I get truly demoralized at time by living in this area (we're planning a move, but possibly not far enough away).

Re: India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

#212

Post by mercer »

all_usernames wrote: post #185
J-dawg wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is utterly bizarre. This stuff angers and confuses me in equal measure. It's like a complete refusal to participate in society, just the expectation that someone else will come and tidy up after you. How do these people behave elsewhere in their lives? One example I keep seeing is people who buy a pack of cigarettes, rip off the plastic film covering and just drop it on the floor. It sends me into a silent rage ev…

If you've spent your whole life feeling victimized by society then you do whatever little things you can to give a big middle finger back. If you're a Black single mom that has to work two jobs to get by, maybe it's easy for you to justify throwing your McDonald's wrappers on the parking lot ground.

I think a much simpler explanation is that most people don't bother justifying much of their behavior in the first place.

Re: India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

#213

Post by pycal »

greggman wrote: post #142
Kluny wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was this scene in Mad Men where Don Draper, Betty Draper and the kids go out for a picnic in the new family car. They eat lunch in a grassy field, then when they're done, they pack up their basket and blanket, leaving the beer cans, food wrappers, empty bottles, plastic cutlery, and chicken bones scattered on the grass. That scene shocked and horrified me more than all the sexism, racism, and homophobia combine…

That still happens in America. See pictures of Washington DC the day after 4th of July. Or Golden Gate Park in SF after a big festival. So many people leave their trash looks it like a dump. Compare to say Cherry Blossom watching in Japan where a large park will be entirely covered in people but when it's over they will have all cleaned it up. It's a cultural issue. I have no idea how to influence western cultures to…

I think part of the issue is cultural, and part of it is education.

Japanese society is rooted in Confuscianism, with an emphasis on social harmony. I don't know how we change or improve our cultural technology in the West to move away from ideas like "protect yourself", "look out for number one".

The Japanese also make their school children clean their own school. I think there's obvious value in teaching children to take care of their environment / community. http://www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2001/11/30/lifestyle/kids-g...

Re: India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

#214

Post by kristofferR »

tallanvor wrote: post #179
droopyEyelids wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mylar chip bags and 20oz soda bottles... What a revolution for litter and health it'd be if we got rid of those, too.

Plastic bottles and cans really need to have a nationwide deposit system in the US - the way Norway does it helps a lot - they have either a 1 or 2.5kr deposit depending on the size of the bottle, and all the grocery stores have a machine that you feed them into that checks for the label and gives you a slip to get the money from the cashier. It'd be nice if we could find a way to extend that type of system to other…

Speaking of Norway - we've also dealt nicely with the plastic bag issue by having sturdy grocery bags that we subsequently also use as garbage bags (big black thrash bags aren't commonly used).

A few years ago the government suggested taxing plastic bags to gain revenue, but it was discarded since the environmental organizations concluded it would be bad for the environment (as more people would throw garbage directly into thrash cans/buy thrash bags).

Re: India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

#215

Post by [deleted] »

hollander wrote: post #193
greggman wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That still happens in America. See pictures of Washington DC the day after 4th of July. Or Golden Gate Park in SF after a big festival. So many people leave their trash looks it like a dump. Compare to say Cherry Blossom watching in Japan where a large park will be entirely covered in people but when it's over they will have all cleaned it up. It's a cultural issue. I have no idea how to influence western cultures to…

With big festivals with thousands of people gathering in park or square, you can expect this in Europe. Problem is that you buy a drink in a plastic cup or bottle, maybe a sandwhich or fries with it, and you need to dispose of the plastic or paper. Where do you leave it? There simply are not enough trash cans around or nearby. In a big crowded place it's not easy to move around, you can get lost etc. So people throw…

[deleted]

Re: India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

#216

Post by pharrington »

J-dawg wrote: post #175
mgkimsal wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2 weeks ago on my way to work, I watched a guy pull off to the side of the road. He opened his car door, and just dumped trash out - a few small bags of trash. He had just driven past a gas station and convenience store - both with publicly accessible trash cans to throw stuff away - you don't even have to get out of your car. It's a bizarre mindset some people have - let me drive past the driver-accessible trash can…

It is utterly bizarre. This stuff angers and confuses me in equal measure. It's like a complete refusal to participate in society, just the expectation that someone else will come and tidy up after you. How do these people behave elsewhere in their lives? One example I keep seeing is people who buy a pack of cigarettes, rip off the plastic film covering and just drop it on the floor. It sends me into a silent rage ev…

Well, the expectation that someone else will come and tidy up after you is exactly how society works. It's just that everybody is the someone else.

I say this as the weird guy random walking the parking lot, picking up trash and transporting it to the wastebin.

Re: India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

#217

Post by ptha »

throwaway420 wrote: post #24

Not a huge fan of outright bans, and think this is probably the wrong priority for India to focus on. (I understand this is just Delhi) Air pollution is huge right now. And sad to say, people pooping in streets and rivers is still a major problem. To me, plastic remnants are a very minor issue in comparison.

This was affecting air pollution, from 2nd and 3rd paragraph: India’s National Green Tribunal (NGT) introduced the ban following complaints of illegal burning of plastic and other waste at three local rubbish dumps. The ban took effect on the first day of 2017.

The illegal burning of waste was said to have been contributing to air pollution, which is a major problem in India.

Re: India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

#218

Post by malloci »

tallanvor wrote: post #179
droopyEyelids wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mylar chip bags and 20oz soda bottles... What a revolution for litter and health it'd be if we got rid of those, too.

Plastic bottles and cans really need to have a nationwide deposit system in the US - the way Norway does it helps a lot - they have either a 1 or 2.5kr deposit depending on the size of the bottle, and all the grocery stores have a machine that you feed them into that checks for the label and gives you a slip to get the money from the cashier. It'd be nice if we could find a way to extend that type of system to other…

While I love the idea, I'd much rather see the money required to rollout a national deposit system go to expanding domestic and commercial recycling programs nationally. This includes subsidizing any costs with providing recycling bins as well as building and maintaining sorting centers.

Re: India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

#219

Post by kamaal »

ageis wrote: post #180
kamaal wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The parent's larger point is apathy. This is very widespread in India, to an extent people don't bother about anything at all until they are personally affected by an issue, by that time they cry victim start blaming governments, neighbors, society et al for not doing enough. Near my home, people are so deeply into this phenomenon they won't contribute a signature to a list, for a letter of request to fix sanitation,…

If we are getting into the root cause it is not apathy but resignation. Chalta hai attitude is because a person cannot make any change - in government, family or society - without putting their lives at risk. This is equivalent to asking someone in the US to make changes when it comes to healthcare sector or electoral funding. Once you have fought enough battles and lost you grow weary of anyone trying to bring about…

>>Chalta hai attitude is because a person cannot make any change - in government, family or society - without putting their lives at risk.

Sorry.

Simple things like not throwing trash on streets, or starting early for office(to avoid driving rashly on roads), or voting in elections, or ensuring you have tree outside your home. Most things are completely harmless.

What risk are you taking by not throwing garbage on streets?

In fact this is the very thing 'Chalta hai' stands for. People make excuses for why they can't, instead of looking for reasons for why they can.

>>Once you have fought enough battles and lost you grow weary of anyone trying to bring about a change.

Most people I've met around my home are like want to sit down and relax when somebody else works for them.

Easy way to describe these people is they are 'lazy'.

Let's call them what they are, instead of making it look like they are moving mountains to make things happen, and the real culprit is some threat or risk from society.

Re: India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

#220

Post by bogomipz »

thunderstrike wrote: post #60
bogomipz wrote: post #33

This is great news! I have a question maybe someone from Delhi could answer, the article states: "The ban took effect on the first day of 2017." What are the vendors doing? Is water being sold in glass bottles with a deposit scheme for redemption now?

I'm curious to know this as well. It would be cool if they implemented this in the U.S., even if only for the return to dominance of the glass bottle soda.

It interesting in many places in South America glass bottles are the norm, they get sterilized and reused. You see crates of them stacked up outside the kioskos waiting to be picked up. You pay a deposit on the bottle and get a redemption when you return it. This isn't a new development either, its just kind of the way its always been. I am not sure why plastic didn't become as dominant in many of those countries.
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