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India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

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Re: India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

#171

Post by Kluny »

mgkimsal wrote: post #146
greggman wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That still happens in America. See pictures of Washington DC the day after 4th of July. Or Golden Gate Park in SF after a big festival. So many people leave their trash looks it like a dump. Compare to say Cherry Blossom watching in Japan where a large park will be entirely covered in people but when it's over they will have all cleaned it up. It's a cultural issue. I have no idea how to influence western cultures to…

2 weeks ago on my way to work, I watched a guy pull off to the side of the road. He opened his car door, and just dumped trash out - a few small bags of trash. He had just driven past a gas station and convenience store - both with publicly accessible trash cans to throw stuff away - you don't even have to get out of your car. It's a bizarre mindset some people have - let me drive past the driver-accessible trash can…

That's awful. I'm fairly sure here in Canada, people would pick the trash up and chase you down the road with it. I've never seen it happen though.

Re: India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

#172

Post by rtpg »

greggman wrote: post #142
Kluny wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was this scene in Mad Men where Don Draper, Betty Draper and the kids go out for a picnic in the new family car. They eat lunch in a grassy field, then when they're done, they pack up their basket and blanket, leaving the beer cans, food wrappers, empty bottles, plastic cutlery, and chicken bones scattered on the grass. That scene shocked and horrified me more than all the sexism, racism, and homophobia combine…

That still happens in America. See pictures of Washington DC the day after 4th of July. Or Golden Gate Park in SF after a big festival. So many people leave their trash looks it like a dump. Compare to say Cherry Blossom watching in Japan where a large park will be entirely covered in people but when it's over they will have all cleaned it up. It's a cultural issue. I have no idea how to influence western cultures to…

Even in Cherry Blossom season, or at fireworks, there's random bits of trash that are flying around.

Though they also make sure to make huuuuge trash cans for the events so that it's not a major pain to throw stuff away. Most people don't want to litter, after all.

The main reason for the cleanliness afterwards are all the extra staff during those periods that go through and pick this stuff up.

Re: India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

#173

Post by ageis »

throwaway420 wrote: post #24

Not a huge fan of outright bans, and think this is probably the wrong priority for India to focus on. (I understand this is just Delhi) Air pollution is huge right now. And sad to say, people pooping in streets and rivers is still a major problem. To me, plastic remnants are a very minor issue in comparison.

Does a software company focus on improving just one aspect of their software or during any time progress is made on several fronts? Why is it that governments (specially the ones in developing countries) are expected to make progress in only one front when there are more specialised departments for each areas?

Re: India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

#174

Post by ageis »

hive_mind wrote: post #126

This is India. Starving, thirsty, injured (hit by cars and trucks) cows and dogs roam the streets, hobbling along, limping along. There are people starving on the street-side. The poorest children are openly prostituted on the streets. How are they going to enforce a rule regarding plastic bags? The rich will continue to do whatever they want. The middle-classes will continue to do whatever they can get away with. Th…

There are people starving on the street sides in San Francisco and every major US downtown.

There are starving, thirsty people in every major city in the US.

This has nothing to do with enforcing ban on plastics.

Re: India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

#175

Post by J-dawg »

mgkimsal wrote: post #146
greggman wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That still happens in America. See pictures of Washington DC the day after 4th of July. Or Golden Gate Park in SF after a big festival. So many people leave their trash looks it like a dump. Compare to say Cherry Blossom watching in Japan where a large park will be entirely covered in people but when it's over they will have all cleaned it up. It's a cultural issue. I have no idea how to influence western cultures to…

2 weeks ago on my way to work, I watched a guy pull off to the side of the road. He opened his car door, and just dumped trash out - a few small bags of trash. He had just driven past a gas station and convenience store - both with publicly accessible trash cans to throw stuff away - you don't even have to get out of your car. It's a bizarre mindset some people have - let me drive past the driver-accessible trash can…

It is utterly bizarre. This stuff angers and confuses me in equal measure. It's like a complete refusal to participate in society, just the expectation that someone else will come and tidy up after you. How do these people behave elsewhere in their lives?

One example I keep seeing is people who buy a pack of cigarettes, rip off the plastic film covering and just drop it on the floor. It sends me into a silent rage every time.

Re: India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

#176

Post by tonyedgecombe »

greggman wrote: post #142
Kluny wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was this scene in Mad Men where Don Draper, Betty Draper and the kids go out for a picnic in the new family car. They eat lunch in a grassy field, then when they're done, they pack up their basket and blanket, leaving the beer cans, food wrappers, empty bottles, plastic cutlery, and chicken bones scattered on the grass. That scene shocked and horrified me more than all the sexism, racism, and homophobia combine…

That still happens in America. See pictures of Washington DC the day after 4th of July. Or Golden Gate Park in SF after a big festival. So many people leave their trash looks it like a dump. Compare to say Cherry Blossom watching in Japan where a large park will be entirely covered in people but when it's over they will have all cleaned it up. It's a cultural issue. I have no idea how to influence western cultures to…

http://www.keepbritaintidy.org/japan-fans-clean-stadium-afte...

Re: India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

#177

Post by vidyesh »

wallace_f wrote: post #125

The economist inside me says it would be better to tax disposable plastic. The tax could cover the cost to clean up the litter. That would create jobs in three ways: 1) plastic clean-up jobs, 2) businesses and economic activity that desperately need disposable plastic can still possibly survive, and ) jobs making disposable plastic. Anyways, it's a lot better than taxing things we all agree we want more of. Like jobs…

To be honest I hate this economic idea of enforcing a ban via adding tax to it. This ideology shows the lack of understanding of the disparity in income in India. The middle class and below are the most affected and they face the most brunt of all this.

The same goes with how the govt. keeps adding tax on tobacco and its products every year. Forcing people to stop smoking by not allowing them to buy despite allowing it to be sold in open market is just one way of violating ones freedom to choose. I do not support nor encourage smoking but I do not like the idea of forcing people to stop smoking by making it expensive, tobacco industry brings a lot of revenue to the govt, the govt just doesn't want to stop it so they enforce such taxes so the govt. earns the same but the intake by people is reduced. This isn't a win-win by any means. People will still die of cancer no matter how moderately they smoke. The problem isn't solved here its just reduced by probably 10% but the revenue from it is still 100%.

Re: India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

#178

Post by kamaal »

ageis wrote: post #174
hive_mind wrote: post #126

This is India. Starving, thirsty, injured (hit by cars and trucks) cows and dogs roam the streets, hobbling along, limping along. There are people starving on the street-side. The poorest children are openly prostituted on the streets. How are they going to enforce a rule regarding plastic bags? The rich will continue to do whatever they want. The middle-classes will continue to do whatever they can get away with. Th…

There are people starving on the street sides in San Francisco and every major US downtown. There are starving, thirsty people in every major city in the US. This has nothing to do with enforcing ban on plastics.

The parent's larger point is apathy. This is very widespread in India, to an extent people don't bother about anything at all until they are personally affected by an issue, by that time they cry victim start blaming governments, neighbors, society et al for not doing enough.

Near my home, people are so deeply into this phenomenon they won't contribute a signature to a list, for a letter of request to fix sanitation, or roads, or a street light. I've even been told by the local Municipal engineer why is that its always me who raises these issues, and if its really so important why don't others speak up. Things came down to a point, when I had to take precautions to fix things for myself. It turns out larger sanitation broke down in a year or two, then all of a sudden my neighbors wanted me to spend all my time working taking off from work to work for them while they relax at home.

We call this 'Chalta hai' attitude in India. Which basically translates to 'works fine for now'.

Re: India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

#179

Post by tallanvor »

droopyEyelids wrote: post #136
greglindahl wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parts of the US have this policy (plastic bags), too. I thought I'd dislike it, but then I realized how amazing it was that most plastic rubbish disappeared.

Mylar chip bags and 20oz soda bottles... What a revolution for litter and health it'd be if we got rid of those, too.

Plastic bottles and cans really need to have a nationwide deposit system in the US - the way Norway does it helps a lot - they have either a 1 or 2.5kr deposit depending on the size of the bottle, and all the grocery stores have a machine that you feed them into that checks for the label and gives you a slip to get the money from the cashier.

It'd be nice if we could find a way to extend that type of system to other types of waste, but that gets more difficult.

Re: India has banned disposable plastic in Delhi

#180

Post by ageis »

kamaal wrote: post #178
ageis wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are people starving on the street sides in San Francisco and every major US downtown. There are starving, thirsty people in every major city in the US. This has nothing to do with enforcing ban on plastics.

The parent's larger point is apathy. This is very widespread in India, to an extent people don't bother about anything at all until they are personally affected by an issue, by that time they cry victim start blaming governments, neighbors, society et al for not doing enough. Near my home, people are so deeply into this phenomenon they won't contribute a signature to a list, for a letter of request to fix sanitation,…

If we are getting into the root cause it is not apathy but resignation.

Chalta hai attitude is because a person cannot make any change - in government, family or society - without putting their lives at risk. This is equivalent to asking someone in the US to make changes when it comes to healthcare sector or electoral funding.

Once you have fought enough battles and lost you grow weary of anyone trying to bring about a change. This is the same resignation seen in the parent's comment about nothing in India changing - they have absolutely no way to make any impact and they have resigned

That still has nothing to do with police's ability or willingness to enforce ban on plastics.

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