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I’ll never bring my phone on an international flight again

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Re: I’ll never bring my phone on an international flight again

#101

Post by digler999 »

nkrisc wrote: post #3

Until you're detained for not having a phone to turn over. I'm only half joking.

My "only half joking" premonition is that in a few years you're going to need a permit to travel outside the US. And I don't mean a passport. I mean an application that is either approved or denied each time you want to go somewhere. And if you dont stick to the approved itinerary (or you dont come back), feds come bring you back and charge you as a felon.

Each one of these border issues (phone passwords, checkpoints inside the US, travel bans) increases the total law enforcement "resistance" we face when traveling internationally. As the resistance increases, at what point does it become an "open circuit" ?

Re: I’ll never bring my phone on an international flight again

#102

Post by greglindahl »

temp-dude-87844 wrote: post #82
helpfulanon wrote: post #32

Fun fact - the "border zone" in which your 4th amendment rights are suspended and you are subject to search, is 100 miles wide and overlaps where the majority of Americans live and work https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone

Every time I see this map (which, AFAIK, is a visualization by the ACLU and not based on an official government publication) I wonder why Chicago and the coastline of Lake Michigan is included. The border with Canada runs diagonally down the length of Lake Superior, clears the Straits of Mackinac by at least 40 miles, and then continues southeast along Lake Huron to Sarnia and Detroit. The entirety of Lake Michigan i…

So what did the ACLU say when you contacted them? I'm curious how it turned out.

Re: I’ll never bring my phone on an international flight again

#104

Post by ue_ »

psybin wrote: post #53
jedberg wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They claim to be device free, but yet everyone has their phones out texting and doing email as they wait in line. I've never seen a border agent even say anything, much less march someone away. As long as you aren't taking pictures of the procedures they don't really care.

The waiting line for immigration/customs is not the area I'm talking about, this area is where you go once you fail the initial screening. In some international airports like Sydney you will receive a $300 on the spot fine if you have your phone in your hand, they're serious about it.

Australia does have some outrageous laws, so I suppose they want you not to be destroying the things that are governed by those laws on your phone. But I'd rather take the fine than have them find out, if I had such things.

Re: I’ll never bring my phone on an international flight again

#105

Post by Veratyr »

oAlbe wrote: post #33

> Since most of our private data is stored in the cloud — and not on individual devices — you could also reset your phone to its factory settings [...] Then if you’re asked to hand it over, there won’t be any personal data on your phone This makes me wonder: is it true? Is the data truly unrecoverable if you factory-reset your phone? I doubt so. But maybe there's some special tool to truly wipe a device (say like the…

On most recent phones, the system is encrypted by default and a factory reset erases the keys, which does make it unrecoverable (unless the key is elsewhere, which I haven't heard of).

Re: I’ll never bring my phone on an international flight again

#106

Post by yread »

helpfulanon wrote: post #32

Fun fact - the "border zone" in which your 4th amendment rights are suspended and you are subject to search, is 100 miles wide and overlaps where the majority of Americans live and work https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone

Well, you're not completely wrong but there are additional tests for search http://blog.constitutioncenter.org/2013/02/does-a-constituti...

> Searches within the 100-mile extended border zone, and outside of the immediate border-stop location, must meet three criteria: a person must have recently crossed a border; an agent should know that the object of a search hasn’t changed; and that “reasonable suspicion” of a criminal activity must exist, says the CRS

Re: I’ll never bring my phone on an international flight again

#107

Post by capote »

anigbrowl wrote: post #99
capote wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I realize I'm not the first person to come up with most ideas I have. I don't mind. Care to share the reason it hasn't taken off? Or are you here just to call me out?

Other commenters have already explained it to you. Reviewing existing knowledge on popular topics will often save you time and increase the enjoyment of participating.

So clearly you're here just to call me out, so it's funny you should bring up time saving.

Other commenters on my comment have not provided a good reason. Like I said, I walk through customs and passport control with my phone in my hand all the time (20 or so trips per year) and could easily click this button the instant something unusual happens.

Re: I’ll never bring my phone on an international flight again

#108

Post by rosser »

unethical_ban wrote: post #72
psybin wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Option 1, why did you bring decoys? You should probably sit here in this cell for a bit while we work out what the fuck you're doing. Option 2, they can't stop you from entering but they can make you enter directly into a jail cell, or generally make your life miserable. See the owner of cock.li, who had all of his electronics seized twice.

OK, what's your point? Your responses are all pretty defeatist, and definitely speculative.

Examples of how CBP has treated people attempting to re-enter the country is by no means "definitely speculative."

Re: I’ll never bring my phone on an international flight again

#109

Post by linkregister »

linkregister wrote: post #58
psybin wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Is this the phone you use on a day to day basis"- felony if you lie.

What is the felony charge? I keep seeing the word "felony" bandied about in this thread. I get it, it's a scary, attention-getting word. Is it really a charge with a minimum 1-year sentence?

I ended up looking it up myself: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1001

    18 U.S. Code § 1001 - Statements or entries generally
    
    Current through Pub. L. 114-38. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.)
    
    (a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, whoever, in any matter
    within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative, or judicial branch
    of the Government of the United States, knowingly and willfully—
    (1) falsifies, conceals, or covers up by any trick, scheme, or device a material fact;
    (2) makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation; or
    (3) makes or uses any false writing or document knowing the same to 
    contain any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or entry;
    shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years or, if
    the offense involves international or domestic terrorism (as defined in 
    section 2331), imprisoned not more than 8 years, or both. If the matter 
    relates to an offense under chapter 109A, 109B, 110, or 117, or section 
    1591, then the term of imprisonment imposed under this section shall be 
    not more than 8 years.

Re: I’ll never bring my phone on an international flight again

#110

Post by scintill76 »

Spooky23 wrote: post #57
sosborn wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: How is that a felony? I have multiple profiles on my home machine. Does that make me a felon?

If you are asked to produce the contents of your property and provide access to a subset of that property, that will be interpreted as either hindering official action or lying to a federal agent. Lying to a federal agent is a felony. From the customs agent and legal point of view, there is no distinction between hiding a secret compartment in your luggage and a device.

> there is no distinction between hiding a secret compartment in your luggage and a device

Is it really illegal to have a secret compartment in your luggage? I mean, I have no doubt it's highly risky and that they will make the case you've done something wrong, but have you inherently done something illegal by merely having a secret compartment? Maybe only if you've explicitly represented that there are no other compartments? Or you've got contraband in there, or something else they've explicitly inquired about that you claimed you don't have? (But that's more about lying or existing laws, than the compartment itself.)

If you turned over your phone for inspection and could see they were looking in an app you don't use, are you committing a felony to not volunteer that they should look in the other browser for your real history or whatever? If having two profiles and only providing one is illegal, what about having two phones? (like your "real" one in your luggage, turned off.) Do I have to volunteer that when they asked for "my phone" that I actually have multiple? What if I kept the "real" one at home -- do I have to tell them the one they're looking at is only a subset of my property and doesn't represent what they probably actually meant when they asked for "my phone"?

I'm not entirely sure where "the lines" are here, but perhaps the passcode is part of it. Once they require that, they've crossed from dealing with physical items physically crossing the border, passing into things that are in your mind or physically located elsewhere. If they can require a lockscreen code, there's not really any reason they can't require every other password since those are "secret compartments" accessible from your phone, and if just having an undisclosed compartment really is illegal, I guess you'd better volunteer an exhaustive list of all your accounts...

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