121–130 of 328 posts
> The government's case hinged mostly on whether Wiseguy had "circumvented" Ticketmaster's system. While I hate scalpers, I have to ask: why is this illegal? Is using a screen reader "circumventing the system" if I get rid of all font and graphics? Is using an adblocker "circumventing the system" ?
I'm really surprised to see so many from the HN audience against scalpers, considering how libertarian the site leans. If there's any market where a completely free market approach is applicable and actually desirable, it's this one. I've bought maybe 40-50 tickets for various events (gaming, concerts, sports) over the last 5 years, and 99% of the time, the price of the ticket was negligible next to all the other exp…
If people would let the market handle it, things would sort themselves out naturally.
If scalpers have to spend more money buying tickets than they can make by selling them, they'll stop buying so many tickets.
Also, maybe venues should have some method of selling unredeemed tickets at the door. For example, if a ticked hasn't been redeemed by one hour after the start of the show, the venue gets to re-sell that space to someone who is there in person with cash in hand. Scalper spent $50 on the ticket that s/he couldn't sell so an hour after the show, the venue can re-sell that space for $30 cash. I'm sure I have overlooked something here but I'm just brainstorming.
Instead of trying to fight technological battles that you're not going to win, revamp the ecosystem.
I'm really surprised to see so many from the HN audience against scalpers, considering how libertarian the site leans. If there's any market where a completely free market approach is applicable and actually desirable, it's this one. I've bought maybe 40-50 tickets for various events (gaming, concerts, sports) over the last 5 years, and 99% of the time, the price of the ticket was negligible next to all the other exp…
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You're logically and economically correct, but people have a visceral negative emotional reaction to arbitrageurs since they didn't do anything to "earn" their profits. The only way to eliminate scalping would be for the original sellers to raise prices to match the clearing price (perhaps with auctions) but the optics on that are also bad since artists don't like to seem too greedy.
>but people have a visceral negative reaction to arbitrageurs since they didn't do anything to "earn" their profits I don't think there's anything wrong with getting money that you didn't earn (so long as you're not exploiting people, as the bourgeoisie do); I do think there is something ethically questionable about forcing (I use the word 'forcing' to refer to the idea that within the confines of show-going, it is t…
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You reasoning is a pretty good example of why the median person should be very wary of anyone saying that free markets and their "efficiency" are a good thing, or will result in good outcomes for them. They will result in good outcomes for the richest, sure. We can agree to that. You are conflating die-hard fans with die-hard wealthy fans which is a little silly. Not all fans have the same marginal value of pocket ch…
However justifiable it might be, this ticket gouging is the reason I haven't seen a concert in almost a decade. Maybe I'm a cheap bastard because I refuse to pay hundreds for the few decent artists I've seen on tour, but it's not that I don't have the money. The first NIN concert I went to, I only had to steer clear of certain mosh-pits. The last one I had to put up with a sea of "brighter than the stage" phones uphe…
I'm really surprised to see so many from the HN audience against scalpers, considering how libertarian the site leans. If there's any market where a completely free market approach is applicable and actually desirable, it's this one. I've bought maybe 40-50 tickets for various events (gaming, concerts, sports) over the last 5 years, and 99% of the time, the price of the ticket was negligible next to all the other exp…
>Even at 2-3x price, the price of the ticket is a relatively small portion of the total cost of attending. This is irrelevant. The fact is that it's 2-3x the cost because someone decided to be greedy and purchase lots of tickets that people would have bought. Imagine if you go to buy a bar of chocolate, and it's $1 as it usually is. Then one day you've found out that the only way to buy it is from the weird guy outsi…
If people stopped buying scalped tickets, scalpers would be out of business.
We're not talking about a product that's of life and death scale importance. I can understand people being upset by price gouging on water and food.
I have, personally, sworn off doing business with Cheaper Than Dirt because of how they price gouged customers after Sandy Hook but nothing they did should be illegal.
If you skip this year's Kenny Chesney concert and the scalpers take a bath, it'll be easier and cheaper to attend next year.
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Then do more shows in the same place until demand is met.
But when everyone and their dog can attend, as opposed to just the , the event stops being exclusive. What's the point of going, then? Sure, it's exclusive when tickets are only available at high prices, but surely, you understand that to be the wrong kind of exclusive!
I'm really surprised to see so many from the HN audience against scalpers, considering how libertarian the site leans. If there's any market where a completely free market approach is applicable and actually desirable, it's this one. I've bought maybe 40-50 tickets for various events (gaming, concerts, sports) over the last 5 years, and 99% of the time, the price of the ticket was negligible next to all the other exp…
You're logically and economically correct, but people have a visceral negative emotional reaction to arbitrageurs since they didn't do anything to "earn" their profits. The only way to eliminate scalping would be for the original sellers to raise prices to match the clearing price (perhaps with auctions) but the optics on that are also bad since artists don't like to seem too greedy.
I think you're right that people have a visceral reaction to people they perceive as arbitrageurs
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like arbitrageurs in nearly every domain where they exist, they "earn" their profits by providing liquidity and handling risk
I don't think the model where ticket sellers are leaving profits on the table for fear of seeming greedy makes much sense
the model that makes better sense (to me at least) is that they want to set a price where the tickets clear earlier than 5 minutes before the show
(also, like all endeavors where you're setting a price, its hard to precisely predict demand)
the difficulty setting a price, and the preference for early sellout, create an opportunity for scalpers who are willing to buy the risk that they won't be able to selling the tickets for more than they bought them for
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also venues make money off non ticket revenues, so they price the tickets at price that maximizes the profits from ticket revenue + plus other revenue streams (concession, parking, etc),
so they will price it lower than scalpers, who don't have access to non ticket revenue, so they're pricing to maximize just ticket revenue
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Because it is about being equitable to middle and lower-income fans. Otherwise, only the richest fans would outbid everyone else and the artists don't want to alienate a large majority of their fan base by making their shows unavailable to only but the folks with the means.
So start a mailing list when you're a small band. Email your oldest fans a promo code with priority booking and/or first tranche auction option. Give people with an academic email address early options. Give people who like you on social media early options. Include a promo code in sales of online merchandise for future gigs. There are lots of potential ways to do it, while undermining the scalpers. Also gigs seem pr…
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> What will of the merchant here is being thwarted? Allowing poor fans the opportunity to get in to a show. > I gave several possible answers No, you gave two. And the background check one was so ludicrous that you probably should have kept it to yourself. And you missed the most obvious, don't allow ticket resale . No need for hundreds of expensive financial investigations, and you don't have to rent out a stadium.…
Why can't they meet the demand by renting a larger venue? Banning ticket resale is also expensive at scale.
TBH I imagine (as implied in the article) scalping is "tolerated" a bit by venues because some of the risk of a dud event is offloaded to the scalpers. The main problem with high priced concerts is probably more in artist image. It's harder to have a "mass market" friendly image if your concert tickets are not really accessible to the "mass market". Branding is critical for artists; if chasing the short term dollar is bad for the brand, it may not be the best thing to do long term.
Allocating a section of low cost tickets via ID based lottery (ala Hamilton) is a great solution for this in my opinion.