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A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

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Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#341

Post by iak8god »

SAI_Peregrinus wrote: post #73
iak8god wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the ACLU's page on this, with a map of the 100 mile "constitution-free zone": https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights-governments-100-mile-b... Note that this zone includes New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, Seattle, etc, etc, and hence a really sizable portion of the US population.

Also note that that image is incomplete: international airports count as border crossings for CBP's purposes, so any city with one and the surrounding area in a 100 mile radius should be added. Edit: About like this. Quick & dirty edit of the ACLU's .jpg, so the quality is poor: http://imgur.com/a/DqDeQ

Nice. And in case it wasn't already crystal clear at this point: that means the majority of Americans live in places where the government straight out claims that the Bill of Rights just doesn't fully apply.

US Census population density map by county (pdf): http://www2.census.gov/geo/pdfs/maps-data/maps/thematic/us_p...

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#342

Post by shitgoose »

Razengan wrote: post #242
skriticos2 wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Within Europe (ps: as a European citizen) you can go anywhere with a personal identification card (no passport) and there are no border controls (when walking or driving). There isn't even a border, just a sign: welcome to $country (ps: and maybe local driving instructions). Say what you will about the EU, but this has been a great achievement. I can go through airport security between two EU countries and security w…

Wasn't this how the world worked up until a century ago? Anyone could walk or sail into any country, anywhere in the world, without a passport. Apparently the World Wars changed that.

a century ago one couldn't arrive to a foreign land and immediately start receiving monthly check, free housing, health and other services [savage, barbaric regimes!]. typically people arrived to a foreign country with means and purpose. why would anyone need a passport? to protect whom against whom?

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#343

Post by stefantalpalaru »

TomMarius wrote: post #94

When I was a child (in central Europe), USA was seen as a heaven where everyone would like to live - and I did too. Nowadays I'm very happy I live in a "poor", speaking by numbers, but much more free republic in the middle of the old continent.

> USA was seen as a heaven where everyone would like to live - and I did too

You can thank propaganda for that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_of_America#Smith.E2.80.9...

Radio Free Europe started as a CIA operation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Free_Europe/Radio_Libert...

While they were useful for access to some real news and for organising the diaspora, these radio stations were also responsible for the false hope that Americans are coming to save us any day now. Most of the people behind the iron curtain channelled their frustration in this benign form of resistance - listening to forbidden radio stations - instead of doing something with an actual chance at bothering the regime.

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#345

Post by sporkologist »

devoply wrote: post #286
Erik816 wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except you probably have a password manager client app on your phone so you can look up and enter any passwords you need for your own convenience.

Except I don't have my phone. Why don't I have my phone? Because I don't want it to be stolen and I have no need for it where I am going. I want to unplug and relax, not be on call all the time.

Wrong answer, citizen, the state requires you to carry a phone!

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#346

Post by Spooky23 »

daurnimator wrote: post #328
leakybit wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. It's your constitutional right as a US citizen to tell any Law Enforcement agent to go fuck themselves. 1. They need a warrant to search your phone if you don't voluntary give them access. 2. Even if they have a warrant, you can plead 5th and just not give them the pin. The American way is all about not trusting the government, believing in conspiracy theories, and stocking up on ammo.

IIRC if you are within 100 miles of the (actual) border or an international airport then are you considered to be entering/leaving the US and can be searched without a warrant. https://www.wired.com/2008/10/aclu-assails-10/ https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception

Remember that the ACLU is a political organization and has its own spin on things. Just like any other org like the EFF, NRA, etc.

In this case, the ACLU article on this topic is weasel worded and needs to be read carefully so you can seperate implication from fact.

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#347

Post by prodigal_erik »

ProblemFactory wrote: post #117
RealGeek wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about if we reset and delete everything from the phone before crossing any international borders?

That looks suspicious. Unless you are coming home to your own country, looking suspicious is a good way to get denied entry.

Maybe employers' security teams should make it known that they routinely instruct employees to do this for business or personal travel.

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#348

Post by wheelerwj »

morgante wrote: post #196
wfunction wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn't this guy a US citizen and didn't he still feel too scared to do this?

Yes, which makes this especially abhorrent. The government insists the searches are only of "visitors." Nobody has an obligation to refuse to comply (and be detained and/or jailed) but if put in this situation I would refuse. I'm not willingly giving up my rights without a court compelling me.

a court can't compell you to give up your rights, otherwise they wouldn't be rights.

but we already know there are nonrights at the border.

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#349

Post by wheelerwj »

psybin wrote: post #124
pveierland wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So how do you protect yourself? I don't believe any of the technical solutions mentioned in this thread; using a dumb phone, multiple identities and/or false data for plausible deniability, wiping the phone before passing the border, is viable for a larger number of people. They also fail once a border agent insists on accessing an email account for which they know you have the password. The only protection is thro…

Lying to, or misleading a border agent is a felony in the US.

lying to ANY federal agent is illegal.

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#350

Post by Spooky23 »

vegardx wrote: post #318
greensoap wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup... there is even a case on this exact point. TLDR; drug smuggler crossed the board and went through customs. He didn't get searched. Then as he was leaving the customs area, on the U.S. side of customs, the police performed a warrant-less search. Prosecutor argued the search was legal because he was in the process of entering the country and citizens don't have a right against search upon entry to the U.S. The co…

Are you sure about this? Usually you can be stopped and searched quite far inland as long as they can prove that you recently crossed the border. This is often used to take smugglers.

They need reasonable suspicion and a link to the crossing.

For example, if you were an American, white college kid crossing the Canadian border into New York at a weird time, and behave in a manner that seems nervous or evasive, You're going to attract interest. If you start heading toward the Mohawk Indian reservation, you're going to get stopped as odds are good you're smuggling something.

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