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A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

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Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#261

Post by manarth »

leakybit wrote: post #208
cylinder wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just don't give them any passwords or unlock anything if you are a US citizen. Let them try to detain a US citizen indefinitely for it.

Exactly. It's your constitutional right as a US citizen to tell any Law Enforcement agent to go fuck themselves. 1. They need a warrant to search your phone if you don't voluntary give them access. 2. Even if they have a warrant, you can plead 5th and just not give them the pin. The American way is all about not trusting the government, believing in conspiracy theories, and stocking up on ammo.

  Even if they have a warrant, you can plead 5th and just not give them the pin.
And then languish in jail for a year plus? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13629728

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#262

Post by bsilvereagle »

caminante wrote: post #20

Here's the Customs and Border Patrol policy in question [0] (see page 31). The EFF has a nice write-up on this topic [1]. It sounds like there's a "border search exemption" that bypasses the Fourth Amendment. The rationale was to ensure duties were paid and screen for "bad guys," drugs, weapons, diseased fruit, etc. [0] https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/privacy... [1] https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/…

This comment [0] claims that under the Jay Treaty [1] you're essentially given a free pass at "the border". But according to Wikipedia and this article [2], at best this only applies to the Canadian border. If this claims are true, I'm surprised that the EFF & ACLU aren't educating everyone about this exemption.

[0]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11742399

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Treaty#American_Indian_rig...

[2] https://law.seattleu.edu/Documents/ailj/Fall%20Issue/Smith%2...

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#263

Post by anigbrowl »

cylinder wrote: post #130
pveierland wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So how do you protect yourself? I don't believe any of the technical solutions mentioned in this thread; using a dumb phone, multiple identities and/or false data for plausible deniability, wiping the phone before passing the border, is viable for a larger number of people. They also fail once a border agent insists on accessing an email account for which they know you have the password. The only protection is thro…

Just don't give them any passwords or unlock anything if you are a US citizen. Let them try to detain a US citizen indefinitely for it.

CBP have deported US citizens in the past. 'Accidentally,' of course. Fun fact: if you are mistakenly placed in immigration detention, you're not automatically entitled to a hearing until 6 months have passed, so you'd better hope someone knows to file a habeas petition on your behalf.

In fact you're not automatically entitled to a hearing at all, but that was the working compromise established last time this ended up in court. Given the new administration's adversarial posture towards the judicial branch on the question of immigration reviewability, this is likely to change for the worse.

. https://www.law360.com/articles/720066/2nd-circ-sets-6-month...

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#265

Post by battlebot »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #243
popey456963 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Donald Trump is undoubtedly homophobic, I think he's just pointing out that for the country to be voting for him, to an extent a proportion of them must agree. And I disagree about you saying the EU just wishes to become the United States of Europe. In almost no sense does anyone give up their "sovereignty" by joining the EU. Every country still creates it's own laws, governs how it wishes to and has full control ove…

Damnit...I hate to look like I'm defending Trump, but he was also the only Republican to let an open homosexual speak on the convention stage (Thiel). He's self-serving and contradictory (see Pence), but it's not nearly as open and shut as suggested. Do you have any specific reasons he's homophobic?

People see "Trump" and automatically downvote you on here. It's insane! If anyone would do something positive for our indvidual privacy it would be Trump because here's the thing: Unlike other politicians, Trump is a man who would listen to a compelling argument. He's a political neophyte, but I truly believe he is trying to act in the best interest of the people. It's really the media's fault that his populism is not coming through--all the media has done is divide us. There are bright people in the Trump Administration and they are doing their best to fix America. He will enforce the laws and work to repeal the ones that are stupid if we ask him to.

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#266

Post by selimthegrim »

tn13 wrote: post #101

This is really sad. As an immigrant I always thought this was coming. I never fly on a muslim airlines like Etihad to Turkish even though they are more convenient, I do not accept friend requests from muslims people on LinkedIN and Facebook.

There's nothing Muslim about Etihad

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#267

Post by anigbrowl »

voidptr654 wrote: post #224
lazaroclapp wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not saying xenophobia inevitably leads to searching phones. But in the US, right now, the justification for the surveillance state is in a big part due to xenophobia and race relations. It is a major factor in the current pathology and we ignore it at our peril.

The law and order type will always find something to increase their powers. You're just trying to fix their current attack vector, which means they'll just use a different scare tomorrow. To have lasting improvements the security apparatus needs to be scaled down.

You are projecting your theoretical model of government-public relations onto the world, and ignoring the fact that race has been a major motivating factor in American politics for the last few centuries. I disagree with your claim that this is just strategic opportunism.

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#268

Post by nothrabannosir »

incompatible wrote: post #236
skriticos2 wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Within Europe (ps: as a European citizen) you can go anywhere with a personal identification card (no passport) and there are no border controls (when walking or driving). There isn't even a border, just a sign: welcome to $country (ps: and maybe local driving instructions). Say what you will about the EU, but this has been a great achievement. I can go through airport security between two EU countries and security w…

Europe varies. In the Netherlands you are supposed to carry ID at all times, and you can be fined if you don't supply it when the police ask.

Yes. Ironically, though, the police are not allowed to ask you without due cause. "Toonplicht, geen draagplicht." A hollow comfort.

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#269

Post by WillyOnWheels »

snomad wrote: post #149
pjc50 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So how do you protect yourself? Individually? It's extremely difficult other than "try not to appear suspicious" and bring a dumbphone when crossing borders. The real protection is collective. Stopping the current administration is only the beginning; the Democrats are merely "not as bad" on this kind of issue. Broader anti-racism and anti-racist-media action is needed, because otherwise this kind of arbitary bruta…

The Mayor of Stockton, while returning from China, was forced to give up his password and then subsequently had all electronic devices seized. That was in 2015; this isn't about race, the broader issue here is privacy and where do I rights kick in. https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20151002/15583732429/homel...

It wasn't a random search

https://courthousenews.com/stockton-mayor-charged-in-youth-c...

STOCKTON, Calif. (CN) — Stockton, Calif. Mayor Anthony Silva was arrested at his summer camp for underprivileged youth Thursday and faces multiple charges over his suspected involvement in an underage strip poker game. Silva was arrested at his camp by agents from the FBI, Stockton Police Department and the San Joaquin County District Attorney’s office. The incumbent mayor’s bail was set at $20,000. The FBI also recovered evidence of Silva secretly taping a conversation with a Stockton city employee, while another witness told investigators that Silva has cameras in his bedroom and at the Stockton Kid’s Club, Riebe said. The charges come amid recent revelations from the San Joaquin County District Attorney’s Office that a gun owned by Silva was used in the 2015 killing of a 13-year old. Investigators say a semi-automatic pistol that was stolen from Silva was used in two separate Stockton shootings. Silva says he informed authorities his gun was missing in March 2015, a month after the gun was used in the fatal shooting of Rayshawn Harris. Officers recovered the weapon during a domestic disturbance unrelated to the mayor.

Silva is no longer mayor(lost re-election for some reason), trial proceedings are still going on.

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#270

Post by tammer »

cylinder wrote: post #130
pveierland wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So how do you protect yourself? I don't believe any of the technical solutions mentioned in this thread; using a dumb phone, multiple identities and/or false data for plausible deniability, wiping the phone before passing the border, is viable for a larger number of people. They also fail once a border agent insists on accessing an email account for which they know you have the password. The only protection is thro…

Just don't give them any passwords or unlock anything if you are a US citizen. Let them try to detain a US citizen indefinitely for it.

Well... sure. Problem is I don't have 6 weeks to sit in a detention cell waiting for the ACLU to clear my case.
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