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Linux pioneer Munich poised to ditch open source and return to Windows

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Re: Linux pioneer Munich poised to ditch open source and return to Windows

#71

Post by tonyedgecombe »

barrkel wrote: post #24
jernfrost wrote: post #16

Does anyone have some examples of the practical problems they experience using Linux, which can't easily be solved in any other way than going to Windows? It just seems odd to me given my good experience switching my fairly computer illiterate parents over to Linux previously. To be fair they presently use Mac, but I found the Linux switch a great advantage initially as I ended up with much less tech support dealing…

I have never had a good experience docking Linux laptops to a dock with multiple monitors attached. The behaviour changes from only lighting up one monitor to hard lockups on docking or suspending or something else, depending on kernel version and whim. Randomly the keyboard attached to the dock doesn't initialize and I need to unplug and replug. Unreliable docking is IMO an excellent reason not to use Linux on lapto…

To be fair it's pretty rubbish on Windows as well, in particular if you have different resolutions on each screen. I have to reboot at least twice to get everything working.

Re: Linux pioneer Munich poised to ditch open source and return to Windows

#72

Post by ageofwant »

Sanddancer wrote: post #59
massysett wrote: post #4

They suggest that virtual desktops make the client OS irrelevant. My employer (US government agency) went to completely virtual desktops and I was surprised they stuck with Windows 7 for the client laptops. Seemed a perfect place to put Red Hat or some other Linux. I wondered if Windows is priced so there is no advantage to using anything else, or if even dumb clients still need enough management that they would rath…

Windows is pretty inexpensive, and if you want something supported for more than a year or two, the options do tend to be somewhat costly. RedHat, for example, is $50/year for the equivalent of Windows Update. There are also a number of other advantages for windows in terms of things like remote management which RedHat doesn't have equivalents for.

Redhat has a vast array of remote management tools: Asible, puppet, cobbler, ssh etc. Most all of them are superior to Microsoft's offerings. It would make perfect sense to have a Linux host on machines if most applications are web based.

Re: Linux pioneer Munich poised to ditch open source and return to Windows

#73

Post by hobofan »

cwyers wrote: post #53
DrScump wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Support applies to both. Maintenance cost for these two alternatives is zero, since updates are free.

Office 365 comes with paid support. As far as maintenance being zero for OpenOffice... that's not how doing IT works at all. Things will break, or users won't be able to figure out how to do things, and they WILL ask for maintenance.

It doesn't come with support for the Windows workstations you need for running it though.

Re: Linux pioneer Munich poised to ditch open source and return to Windows

#74

Post by endless1234 »

barrkel wrote: post #24
jernfrost wrote: post #16

Does anyone have some examples of the practical problems they experience using Linux, which can't easily be solved in any other way than going to Windows? It just seems odd to me given my good experience switching my fairly computer illiterate parents over to Linux previously. To be fair they presently use Mac, but I found the Linux switch a great advantage initially as I ended up with much less tech support dealing…

I have never had a good experience docking Linux laptops to a dock with multiple monitors attached. The behaviour changes from only lighting up one monitor to hard lockups on docking or suspending or something else, depending on kernel version and whim. Randomly the keyboard attached to the dock doesn't initialize and I need to unplug and replug. Unreliable docking is IMO an excellent reason not to use Linux on lapto…

Random behavior when using the dock is pretty standard on my Lenovo running windows as well, though. Pretty much exactly those problems you are describing.

Re: Linux pioneer Munich poised to ditch open source and return to Windows

#75

Post by ghostDancer »

noobermin wrote: post #37
Merem wrote: post #8

Hm.. "At the time the report was released, the FSFE questioned why Accenture was commissioned to co-author a report assessing the use of Microsoft software, when the consultancy runs a joint venture with Microsoft called Avanade, which helps businesses implement Microsoft technologies. For its part, Accenture said it has an "independent view of the technology landscape". "At the time Munich began the move to LiMux in…

It almost sounds like the sort of thing that happens often in the US. I thought the europeans were more resistant to lobbying and other related practices.

In Europe among politicians , as i guess everywhere, there's also that thing that i will undo everything you have done only because you have done it and i'm against it even if i don't understand it. And BTW probably get something in return from Microsoft.

Re: Linux pioneer Munich poised to ditch open source and return to Windows

#76

Post by Sylos »

jernfrost wrote: post #16

Does anyone have some examples of the practical problems they experience using Linux, which can't easily be solved in any other way than going to Windows? It just seems odd to me given my good experience switching my fairly computer illiterate parents over to Linux previously. To be fair they presently use Mac, but I found the Linux switch a great advantage initially as I ended up with much less tech support dealing…

This is mostly a political thing, rather than them having any real problems.

Re: Linux pioneer Munich poised to ditch open source and return to Windows

#77

Post by mschuster91 »

jernfrost wrote: post #16

Does anyone have some examples of the practical problems they experience using Linux, which can't easily be solved in any other way than going to Windows? It just seems odd to me given my good experience switching my fairly computer illiterate parents over to Linux previously. To be fair they presently use Mac, but I found the Linux switch a great advantage initially as I ended up with much less tech support dealing…

> Does anyone have some examples of the practical problems they experience using Linux, which can't easily be solved in any other way than going to Windows?

I worked there. The biggest problems back a few years ago:

1) So-called "Fachverfahren", basically software for stuff like managing drivers' licenses or other bureaucratic procedures, is written and supplied for Windows only. Often enough that meant Munich had to pay a boatload of money for a Linux port. Or the software HAD a Linux port, but for RHEL or other "enterprise linux" crap distros - which meant using stuff like "alien" or, worse, manual repackaging to make them compatible with Ubuntu. Yay for version hell - statically linked programs were an exception.

2) DRIVERS. There's a lot of custom hardware - special printers for printing on documents like ID cards, fingerprint readers for the new national ID cards, RFID readers with support for said ID cards... you won't believe how much stuff there is. And all of this needs to have Linux drivers and tooling.

3) Employee training. Back in my days KDE was used (and I believe it still is), but it's different enough from Windows that people need training. And there's 35k of employees, most of which don't have any IT experience outside from their Windows computer at home.

4) The computers themselves. Let's just say that the computers in any public agency are almost always horribly outdated. Many users complain(ed) about the speed of LiMux, which mostly was caused by old or underpowered (esp. RAM, given that OpenOffice and Firefox are really really memory hungry) systems.

5) Networking. Depends on the building and agency, of course, but e.g. my school was connected via a 16 mbit uplink, over which the entire Internet traffic went...

I believe the biggest problem LiMux had and still has is a lack of proper funding - especially for hardware.

Re: Linux pioneer Munich poised to ditch open source and return to Windows

#78

Post by Sylos »

CaptSpify wrote: post #18
massysett wrote: post #3

I'm surprised the elected officials are so involved in deciding what desktop software is in use. I'm not sure whether to be impressed that they are this deep into details, or skeptical that politicians rather than professionals are making these decisions. Both I guess. I just can't imagine the council in any US jurisdiction meddling in what desktop OS is chosen throughout the jurisdiction.

I would imagine that the cost difference is enough to get their attention

Reportedly, they haven't even looked at the costs of moving back to Windows yet, nor is there any indication of this actually saving money in the long run.

Re: Linux pioneer Munich poised to ditch open source and return to Windows

#79

Post by sveme »

Merem wrote: post #8

Hm.. "At the time the report was released, the FSFE questioned why Accenture was commissioned to co-author a report assessing the use of Microsoft software, when the consultancy runs a joint venture with Microsoft called Avanade, which helps businesses implement Microsoft technologies. For its part, Accenture said it has an "independent view of the technology landscape". "At the time Munich began the move to LiMux in…

> More recently, Microsoft last year moved its German company headquarters to Munich."

To be fair, the headquarters were in Unterschleißheim before, a suburb of Munich just 5kms from the new location.

Re: Linux pioneer Munich poised to ditch open source and return to Windows

#80

Post by sveme »

microcolonel wrote: post #21
shmerl wrote: post #12

So, no real reason? Or may be MS paid someone in charge? It doesn't make any sense really.

Funnily enough, after 2004, MS moved their German HQ to Münich.

Indeed, they moved five kilometers from Unterschleißheim, a Munich suburb, to the city itself.
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