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Below Deck: Filipinos make up nearly a third of all cruise ship workers

story.californiasunday.com

21–30 of 209 posts

Re: Below Deck: Filipinos make up nearly a third of all cruise ship workers

#21
post #16
post #14

The sad thing is that while he was able to earn $1,500 per month, he apparently didn't invest into anything. No financial planning as if he can do this job forever. Sure he must have known stories what's going on and could prepare for this possibility. I don't understand why he didn't.

And where did you learn to do financial planning? Were you perhaps raised in an environment where you could see loans, investments, assets, mortgages, credit and debit in action? Or perhaps you even had it as a formal subject in school? Now imagine you were raised in a bamboo shack living hand-to-mouth in a cash economy.

He also did invest it partly in his kid's education which in many countries of Asia is the typical way people plan for retirement.

Re: Below Deck: Filipinos make up nearly a third of all cruise ship workers

#22
post #20

Newsflash: Life sucks anywhere when you're poor and uneducated. I worked as an independent Google contractor before for less than $11 an hour with very stringent rules, ever increasing performance requirements, no holidays, no sick pay, no nothing. If you're poor and uneducated you're disposable dirt anywhere these days, even though people would like you to think otherwise and it's obviously even worse in 3rd world c…

Yet you make four times what the subject of the article makes (assuming you work 40hrs a week), receive additional pay for additional work, and are protected by US labor laws. I'm not saying your job isn't though, but I find it silly to use it to dismiss the point of the article which is that US companies should be held responsible under US laws.

He made 2k a month with tips. I was not protected by any labor laws as I was a contractor and not an employee (their way to get around benefits and employee related regulations).

I'm also living in a first world country where costs of living are fairly expensive and where I don't have free housing (and food I presume), so I was living hand to mouth without health insurance.

Re: Below Deck: Filipinos make up nearly a third of all cruise ship workers

#23

Newsflash: Life sucks anywhere when you're poor and uneducated. I worked as an independent Google contractor before for less than $11 an hour with very stringent rules, ever increasing performance requirements, no holidays, no sick pay, no nothing. If you're poor and uneducated you're disposable dirt anywhere these days, even though people would like you to think otherwise and it's obviously even worse in 3rd world c…

Wow, that's surprising. Was that position you're describing doing software development? Where were you based?

Re: Below Deck: Filipinos make up nearly a third of all cruise ship workers

#24
> The three logged their hours on the ship’s time-sheet software, called “Fun Time” (Carnival Cruise Line’s motto is the “Fun Ship”). But when the number exceeded ten hours, it appeared red on the screen. No matter how many extra hours they tapped in, their pay slips rarely showed that they worked more than ten or 11 hours a day. Regie didn’t understand why he wasn’t paid for the extra work, and when he asked management, no one provided an answer. “What’s your proof?” Regie says his supervisor shot back. Many tip-earning Carnival Cruise Line workers told me that when they raised the issue, their managers would punish them by assigning them fewer guests, which meant fewer tips.

I wonder why they do this. The $$$ savings for the lesser hours are peanuts given the low wages. Only reason I can think of is to break the will of the workers. If they feel powerless to complain about the hours they've worked, they're less likely to complain about the rest of their conditions.

> But arbitration in the Philippines is nothing like the American judicial system. In the United States, seamen can file for damages on the basis of dangerous working conditions or shoddy medical care, for example. They can receive payments that cover any future loss of wages and ongoing medical expenses, which can span a lifetime. In the Philippines, on the other hand, seamen are offered payouts based on a predetermined compensation chart, in which each body part has a price tag. If there’s a spinal injury and the company-sponsored doctor says a seafarer’s back has lost a third of its mobility, it’s valued at $7,465. If a crew member loses his penis, he’s paid $20,900. If a worker dies: $50,000. The maximum payout, for permanent disability, is capped at $60,000. Unionized workers can receive more, but Carnival Cruise Line crew members are nonunion.

I'm not sure how one "loses his penis" but I'm damn sure I'd demand more than $20,900 in compensation from the party responsible.

> Recently, the cruise industry has pushed to pass a law that would prevent all foreign cruise workers in U.S. waters — not just Filipinos — from any protection under U.S. law.

Sounds like they want it both ways. If you're docking at US ports and picking up US customers, you should be expected to follow some level of US law. It's hard to say what protections should apply though as it's possible they could conflict with foreign laws as well. My internal sense of justice says it should be something though.

Re: Below Deck: Filipinos make up nearly a third of all cruise ship workers

#25
post #12

If you're a Filipino man and reading this, please don't be tempted to take one of these jobs. Your health is something that you can't replace.

What do you suggest that Filipino man does instead?

Found a startup, pitch on HN, get rich - c'mon man, get with the program !

Re: Below Deck: Filipinos make up nearly a third of all cruise ship workers

#26

Newsflash: Life sucks anywhere when you're poor and uneducated. I worked as an independent Google contractor before for less than $11 an hour with very stringent rules, ever increasing performance requirements, no holidays, no sick pay, no nothing. If you're poor and uneducated you're disposable dirt anywhere these days, even though people would like you to think otherwise and it's obviously even worse in 3rd world c…

Wow, that's surprising. Was that position you're describing doing software development? Where were you based?

An unskilled operational role.

I worked for outsourcers before as well doing support type jobs. Bad pay, ever increasing performance pressure, no benefits (no sick pay or health insurance), so if you got sick you were shit out of luck and healthcare was prohibitively expensive. Private insurance was available of course but these were all angle shooting companies in the affordable range that are barely better than having no insurance at all. The gap to the 3rd world is quickly closing in a lot of places these days unfortunately. (and not in a good way)

This was in western Europe.

Re: Below Deck: Filipinos make up nearly a third of all cruise ship workers

#27
post #24

> The three logged their hours on the ship’s time-sheet software, called “Fun Time” (Carnival Cruise Line’s motto is the “Fun Ship”). But when the number exceeded ten hours, it appeared red on the screen. No matter how many extra hours they tapped in, their pay slips rarely showed that they worked more than ten or 11 hours a day. Regie didn’t understand why he wasn’t paid for the extra work, and when he asked managem…

> I wonder why they do this. The $$$ savings for the lesser hours are peanuts given the low wages. Only reason I can think of is to break the will of the workers.

It's more about regulations I believe, if management can "prove" that you did not work more than the allowed hours, they cannot be fined for it.

Re: Below Deck: Filipinos make up nearly a third of all cruise ship workers

#28
post #24

> The three logged their hours on the ship’s time-sheet software, called “Fun Time” (Carnival Cruise Line’s motto is the “Fun Ship”). But when the number exceeded ten hours, it appeared red on the screen. No matter how many extra hours they tapped in, their pay slips rarely showed that they worked more than ten or 11 hours a day. Regie didn’t understand why he wasn’t paid for the extra work, and when he asked managem…

> I wonder why they do this. The $$$ savings for the lesser hours are peanuts given the low wages. Only reason I can think of is to break the will of the workers. It's more about regulations I believe, if management can "prove" that you did not work more than the allowed hours, they cannot be fined for it.

Why can't you work more than 10 hours per day? Is that a labor law in ship's flag country?

Re: Below Deck: Filipinos make up nearly a third of all cruise ship workers

#29
post #13

This is why I am never ever going on a cruise ship (or any resort in Mexico, Dominican etc). Knowing that the guy serving you is basically a slave working for pennies while you are supposed to enjoy your vacation and relax- I couldn't, no thank you. What surprises me to this day is how little it costs to buy American congress. 1,000,000$ lobbying costs? That's less than a lot of houses in SF or NYC. Shouldn't it cost…

>This is why I am never ever going on a cruise ship [...] Knowing that the guy serving you is basically a slave

I'm not doubting your sincerity and principles but I'd like to go beyond this particular injustice of cruise workers and understand how consumers reconcile all the "slave" inputs for the other products they buy.

In the USA, many fruits and veggies are collected by cheap labor from Mexico.[1] In UK, the analogous group is Africans. Those strawberries in the supermarket are not collected by white middle-class teenagers working the field as a fun summer job. It's back-breaking work with terrible pay. Similar situation for many foods like coffee beans, beef/poultry/pork processing.

Or the shoes for your kid to run or play soccer in. Made by sweatshops (many staffed with children) in Asia.

Or how about smartphones?[2] This includes kids mining for minerals so we can have iPhones.[3]

Yes, some of these happen because many consumers are oblivious to how products are made. (You mean the strawberries don't come from a magical strawberry fairy?!?)

Or maybe why we tolerate many of these scenarios is "The Copenhagen Interpretation of Ethics"[4] which has been discussed by HN before. If I don't physically have to touch or lay my eyes on that child labor in Africa, my iPhone is fine.

What would a lifestyle that avoided all use of "tainted" products used look like? (No iPhone, no cheap produce from the supermarket, no affordable shoes or clothing. etc.)

I've not seen a really good essay discussing all the inconsistencies of ethics applied above and advising us how to live guilt free without retreating to a remote monastery and minimizing oneself to an ascetic life like a monk. Refusing cruise ships is easy -- a lot of HN readers don't like them in the first place. Giving up smartphones is hard. Relevant to this moment, the ability to type up comments on HN means I'm taking advantage of the global supply of "slave labor" around the world. There's no way I could have the luxury to do that if I had to harvest my own strawberries or pay a white person $20/hour to do it for me.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8_JWuWSSLQ

[2] http://www.androidcentral.com/child-labor-allegations-surfac...

[3] http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3280872/iPhone-miner...

[4] https://blog.jaibot.com/the-copenhagen-interpretation-of-eth...

Re: Below Deck: Filipinos make up nearly a third of all cruise ship workers

#30
post #24

> The three logged their hours on the ship’s time-sheet software, called “Fun Time” (Carnival Cruise Line’s motto is the “Fun Ship”). But when the number exceeded ten hours, it appeared red on the screen. No matter how many extra hours they tapped in, their pay slips rarely showed that they worked more than ten or 11 hours a day. Regie didn’t understand why he wasn’t paid for the extra work, and when he asked managem…

Its all profit maximization as far as these companies are concerned, at the cost of their employees. Realistically, if a cruise ship primarily docks at a US port, they should have to abide by our laws. Same if they primarily dock in another country. Flags of convenience have been used for tax evasion and law breaking, which needs to be reigned in.
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