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H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

economist.com

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Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#131

Post by sumedh »

rushabh wrote: post #47
planetjones wrote: post #21

Is this disagreeing with Blake Irvine. See https://www.google.co.uk/amp/amp.timeinc.net/fortune/2017/02... This is the man who refers to H1B visas as genius visas. I have worked with many Indian outsourcing companies and while talented people do exist, calling their employees genius is wholly inaccurate (as would be calling most software devs in the Western world genius). I did laugh when I read irving's original pos…

"Outsourcing" covers a wide range of companies based on quality and pricing, so it depends on which end of the spectrum you are. Unfortunately the people who end of migrating to the United States on an H1B do form the cream of developers. Infact Indian outsourcing companies use H1Bs as an incentive. I for one, will be happy if the stakes are increased. This will ensure more smart people stay back in India and fix loc…

> Unfortunately the people who end of migrating to the United States on an H1B do form the cream of developers.

Well that is not necessarily true when it comes to Indian outsourcing companies. If a person has a very good rapport with his manager that person would be preferred over someone who is more technically competent but does not enjoy the same rapport with the manager.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#132

Post by throwaway251 »

Looking at the discussion so far - probably going to get trolled/downvoted but here goes:

From all of the above comments - people are trying to undo only the parts of globalization that they don't like (wage arbitrage is one of them - stop crying!). I truly wonder what would happen if the Indians (and the rest of the world) started treating Americans the same way the America treats them and starts to roll back the impacts of globalization:

1. Stop American businesses from getting favors under trade deals and especially with sales of military equipment

2. Ask each American to provide all their social media account information when entering the country or throw them out

3. Set quotas for American businesses to sell their products/services.

4. Force Google, etc to locate servers and data-centers in China/India directly and give the keys to local governments (if the US government can get access why should other governments not?)

If a trade war did happen:

Specific to India: Their economy is mostly non-export oriented (except the IT services part) - they will probably take longer to raise the quality of living for their population - but it will probably be a better path to take (a trade war would probably help grow domestic businesses faster)

Specific to China: The USA needs access to the Chinese markets rather than the other way. Plus they can always dump all those treasury notes

Perhaps a trade war (rather de-globalization) would be a good idea for the developing world - it would bring better balance to the world and undo globalization as a whole and not parts of it (which is exactly what USA voted for when they elected Trump).

P.S. Please don't give a self-righteous BS response about USA being the land of the free and so on.. I think it's pretty obvious most immigrants are there for the money and quality of living (the kind of quality that comes with money and not society, safety, etc)

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#133

Post by CurtHagenlocher »

loph wrote: post #103

This one sentence says it all: "The Economist found that between 2012 and 2015 the three biggest Indian outsourcing firms—TCS, Wipro and Infosys—submitted over 150,000 visa applications for positions that paid a median salary of $69,500. In contrast, America’s five biggest tech firms—Apple, Amazon, Facebook, Google and Microsoft—submitted just 31,000 applications, and proposed to pay their workers a median salary of…

H1Bs hired by companies like Amazon and Microsoft tend to be near the beginning of their careers, so a direct comparison to an average salary can be misleading. At least at Microsoft, the company helps H1Bs become permanent residents which would totally eliminate any ability the company has to underpay them.

Disclosure: I work at Microsoft.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#134

Post by tootie »

loph wrote: post #103

This one sentence says it all: "The Economist found that between 2012 and 2015 the three biggest Indian outsourcing firms—TCS, Wipro and Infosys—submitted over 150,000 visa applications for positions that paid a median salary of $69,500. In contrast, America’s five biggest tech firms—Apple, Amazon, Facebook, Google and Microsoft—submitted just 31,000 applications, and proposed to pay their workers a median salary of…

Probably true, but there's plenty of firms that are not hiring top talent and/or not in major metro areas where salaries are lower. Places that need 50 warm bodies to code back-office systems in a Pennsylvania suburb are not going to be paying $150K to anyone.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#135

Post by Declanomous »

sjg007 wrote: post #98
koolba wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US News article has eight different medical professions in the top ten. It's rounded out with Psychiatrist as number nine (which I'd argue is medical as well) and "Chief Executive" as number ten. If you consolidate nine of them as "Medical", I bet IT, or some variant of it, would be in the top ten.

Yep.... if you are a US citizen, for the money, go to med school, everything else is overrated.

A medical degree costs a lot more than the degree necessary to work in IT. I don't have the report off the top of my head, but doctors don't reach salary parity with their peers who got bachelors degrees until their mid-40s.

Edit: I'm talking about lifetime earnings parity, not yearly parity. If you are marking $85k in IT as a 27 year old, you are way ahead of someone who starts making $175k at the age of 35 and has $250k in debt.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#136

Post by dukeluke »

beachstartup wrote: post #129
dukeluke wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a young man in America, I would only recommend this if you both live in a tech city and hold a degree. I have neither, and so despite my ability to develop software, I am not taken seriously by employers.

i started out in tech as a teenager doing data entry and software installs. if you haven't done a similar job yet for at least a year or two, re-evaluate your expectations.

I have been doing tech support for nearly two years now. I've gotten plenty of certs, am mostly through college, and always ask to do more. It doesn't seem to matter in this area.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#137

Post by itissid »

As an H1B visa holder, I think the issue of abuse at its core has to do with two things(at least):

1. Too many tech firms require/opt for low cost workers to subsidize their payroll bill. If you raise H1B salaries, firms that have thin margins might automate and outsource. I think to scrap the lottery, and add the market based approach to H1Bs like in the House Bill that was proposed in Jan is a better alternative, it would force firms to be more productive and boost payroll more organically.

2. The program is underfunded, its entirely fees driven and the fees is clearly not enough to prevent abuse we keep hearing about so much.

Remember top end silicon valley's don't really need to care about the salary issue as long as the reform does not dry the talent from coming to the US completely.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#138

Post by the_commentary »

Panini_Jones wrote: post #120
loph wrote: post #103

This one sentence says it all: "The Economist found that between 2012 and 2015 the three biggest Indian outsourcing firms—TCS, Wipro and Infosys—submitted over 150,000 visa applications for positions that paid a median salary of $69,500. In contrast, America’s five biggest tech firms—Apple, Amazon, Facebook, Google and Microsoft—submitted just 31,000 applications, and proposed to pay their workers a median salary of…

> None of those salaries listed are competitive with what a non-H1B (read citizen or permanent resident) would earn. As a new grad interviewing for software engineering positions at FB, Google, Etc., I make exactly the same amount as my U.S. peers who have also received offers. Moreover, how do you know that the SE level of the H1B hires is exactly that of the pool from which Indeed.com calculates their averages? Wha…

> What if the H1B program was taking in a huge amount of new grads right now and not as many senior positions?

Then the program in turn wouldn't be abiding by the idea of the H1B program in the first place, which is to bring in people who have skills that can't be found in the US. You can hire new grads from the US just as easily as abroad, just maybe not at the artificially low prices that you want to pay them.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#139

Post by [deleted] »

Panini_Jones wrote: post #120
loph wrote: post #103

This one sentence says it all: "The Economist found that between 2012 and 2015 the three biggest Indian outsourcing firms—TCS, Wipro and Infosys—submitted over 150,000 visa applications for positions that paid a median salary of $69,500. In contrast, America’s five biggest tech firms—Apple, Amazon, Facebook, Google and Microsoft—submitted just 31,000 applications, and proposed to pay their workers a median salary of…

> None of those salaries listed are competitive with what a non-H1B (read citizen or permanent resident) would earn. As a new grad interviewing for software engineering positions at FB, Google, Etc., I make exactly the same amount as my U.S. peers who have also received offers. Moreover, how do you know that the SE level of the H1B hires is exactly that of the pool from which Indeed.com calculates their averages? Wha…

[deleted]

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#140

Post by ep103 »

Panini_Jones wrote: post #120
loph wrote: post #103

This one sentence says it all: "The Economist found that between 2012 and 2015 the three biggest Indian outsourcing firms—TCS, Wipro and Infosys—submitted over 150,000 visa applications for positions that paid a median salary of $69,500. In contrast, America’s five biggest tech firms—Apple, Amazon, Facebook, Google and Microsoft—submitted just 31,000 applications, and proposed to pay their workers a median salary of…

> None of those salaries listed are competitive with what a non-H1B (read citizen or permanent resident) would earn. As a new grad interviewing for software engineering positions at FB, Google, Etc., I make exactly the same amount as my U.S. peers who have also received offers. Moreover, how do you know that the SE level of the H1B hires is exactly that of the pool from which Indeed.com calculates their averages? Wha…

Congratulations. You're not the average.
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