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SF Is One of the Worst-Paying Places in the US for Software Engineers

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Re: SF Is One of the Worst-Paying Places in the US for Software Engineers

#21

Post by alexandercrohde »

anondude12 wrote: post #20

Disagree. I'm from the Midwest and live in SF now. Couldn't be happier with my change. Data point of one: - $2200/mo 1BR apt in SF (Inner Sunset). Not trendy, but nice. I got it 3 years ago. - Working for a major tech co. - Roughly $275K/yr in total comp (salary/equity/bonuses). It goes up around $10-20k every year, as my equity bumps compound and I get raises. - Putting away $18k/yr in 401k + $9k company match. - Av…

As a San Franciscan for about 5 years, those costs sound realistic. However that total comp number is well above the norm for the area. Two points on that.

1. If you're going to count equity, count it by the value at the time of the grant [minus strike price], not what it's worth now. In terms of comp, it was a gamble that paid off.

2. It sounds like you work for one of the big 4? Not everybody gets this opportunity, in fact if your degree isn't in comp-sci they may not even want to talk to you (regardless of your IQ or what have you).

Re: SF Is One of the Worst-Paying Places in the US for Software Engineers

#22

Post by alexandercrohde »

james_niro wrote: post #19

All these data on SF salaries missing the point that SF is not about high salary etc You have some of the brightest and intelligent people of the world in one place. It is like Athens in Ancient Greece,

As an SF resident of 5 years, I'm not sure I'd compare this place to Athens. Not saying you haven't had that experience, but I haven't so your mileage may vary.

Re: SF Is One of the Worst-Paying Places in the US for Software Engineers

#23

Post by pk3 »

et-al wrote: post #15
nugget wrote: post #7

If I were a young software developer solely focused on saving as much money as possible, I would: move to SF in a heartbeat, work for Facebook, Google, or Amazon, pick a mission-critical team that exposed me to systems at massive scale, and live in a van a pleasant 5-10 minute bike ride from the office. After I felt comfortable I'd start to consult on the side on weekends for up to $53k of annual tax-free solo 401k s…

> After I felt comfortable I'd start to consult on the side on weekends for up to $53k of annual tax-free solo 401k sheltered income. May someone please explain this? I wasn't aware of a different 401k contribution limit for freelancing. > Life doesn't present a ton of these "sell picks and shovels to gold miners" opportunities but this is definitely one of them. Feel like this is more akin to a goldminer working 24/…

If the side business is profitable (and makes enough to enact this plan), it works like this for a solo 401(k): the employee's contribution (you) up to $18,000 and a profit sharing contribution up to 25% of the business earnings. For 2017, it maxes out at $54,000 if you're under 50 years old.

Keep in mind though that maximums are per person not per company; if you keep the day job 401(k) (and potential match) you'd have to reduce the contributions from your side business to not exceed the maximum.

https://www.irs.gov/retirement-plans/one-participant-401k-pl... https://scs.fidelity.com/products/mobile/sepMobile.shtml

Re: SF Is One of the Worst-Paying Places in the US for Software Engineers

#24

Post by paulddraper »

anondude12 wrote: post #20

Disagree. I'm from the Midwest and live in SF now. Couldn't be happier with my change. Data point of one: - $2200/mo 1BR apt in SF (Inner Sunset). Not trendy, but nice. I got it 3 years ago. - Working for a major tech co. - Roughly $275K/yr in total comp (salary/equity/bonuses). It goes up around $10-20k every year, as my equity bumps compound and I get raises. - Putting away $18k/yr in 401k + $9k company match. - Av…

> They also didn't pay for public transport, give you equity bonuses, pay for your meals, or had office snacks. A spacious house couldn't make up for all of those differences.

Huh. Well, my family appreciate our Midwestern house and yard. I do get free snacks at work, but I'm not sure they really care that much.

Re: SF Is One of the Worst-Paying Places in the US for Software Engineers

#25

Post by jordanb »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #14
tropo wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are willing to suffer like that (have roommates, not have all the kids you might want, not have a stay-at-home parent...) to deal with the cost of rent in San Francisco, then you can also do it elsewhere and live even cheaper. Detroit could be nearly free. So, that doesn't help SF or NYC. The cost-saving measures work elsewhere too, getting you something better or an even lower cost. Living in a place like The…

"Detroit could be nearly free." Who would have more money in the bank at the end of the year? A software developer in SF spending $40k on rent, or a software developer in Detroit spending $0 on rent?

How about developer trying to pool two high incomes together to make mortgage every month after obliterating years of savings on a down payment, versus one that can easily afford to buy a house with whatever amenities one wants including an easy commute putting 20% down (less than a year's savings) and paying less than 40% of the take home pay per month?

The second option is a true story of me here in Chicago.

Re: SF Is One of the Worst-Paying Places in the US for Software Engineers

#26

Post by [deleted] »

jordanb wrote: post #25
rahimnathwani wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Detroit could be nearly free." Who would have more money in the bank at the end of the year? A software developer in SF spending $40k on rent, or a software developer in Detroit spending $0 on rent?

How about developer trying to pool two high incomes together to make mortgage every month after obliterating years of savings on a down payment, versus one that can easily afford to buy a house with whatever amenities one wants including an easy commute putting 20% down (less than a year's savings) and paying less than 40% of the take home pay per month? The second option is a true story of me here in Chicago.

[deleted]

Re: SF Is One of the Worst-Paying Places in the US for Software Engineers

#27

Post by et-al »

pk3 wrote: post #23
et-al wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After I felt comfortable I'd start to consult on the side on weekends for up to $53k of annual tax-free solo 401k sheltered income. May someone please explain this? I wasn't aware of a different 401k contribution limit for freelancing. > Life doesn't present a ton of these "sell picks and shovels to gold miners" opportunities but this is definitely one of them. Feel like this is more akin to a goldminer working 24/…

If the side business is profitable (and makes enough to enact this plan), it works like this for a solo 401(k): the employee's contribution (you) up to $18,000 and a profit sharing contribution up to 25% of the business earnings. For 2017, it maxes out at $54,000 if you're under 50 years old. Keep in mind though that maximums are per person not per company; if you keep the day job 401(k) (and potential match) you'd h…

Thanks pk3 and baddox!

Re: SF Is One of the Worst-Paying Places in the US for Software Engineers

#28

Post by lithos »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #14
tropo wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are willing to suffer like that (have roommates, not have all the kids you might want, not have a stay-at-home parent...) to deal with the cost of rent in San Francisco, then you can also do it elsewhere and live even cheaper. Detroit could be nearly free. So, that doesn't help SF or NYC. The cost-saving measures work elsewhere too, getting you something better or an even lower cost. Living in a place like The…

"Detroit could be nearly free." Who would have more money in the bank at the end of the year? A software developer in SF spending $40k on rent, or a software developer in Detroit spending $0 on rent?

Most of the houses that sell for 'free'/'cheap' have been scavenged over by neighbors and similar. Things like dry wall being ripped out to get copper wiring to sell isn't unusual.

Re: SF Is One of the Worst-Paying Places in the US for Software Engineers

#29

Post by nugget »

pk3 wrote: post #23
et-al wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> After I felt comfortable I'd start to consult on the side on weekends for up to $53k of annual tax-free solo 401k sheltered income. May someone please explain this? I wasn't aware of a different 401k contribution limit for freelancing. > Life doesn't present a ton of these "sell picks and shovels to gold miners" opportunities but this is definitely one of them. Feel like this is more akin to a goldminer working 24/…

If the side business is profitable (and makes enough to enact this plan), it works like this for a solo 401(k): the employee's contribution (you) up to $18,000 and a profit sharing contribution up to 25% of the business earnings. For 2017, it maxes out at $54,000 if you're under 50 years old. Keep in mind though that maximums are per person not per company; if you keep the day job 401(k) (and potential match) you'd h…

The employee contribution maximum is limited per person, but the employer contribution maximum is per company (if the companies are unrelated, by ownership structure). Some illustrative answers here:

https://www.quora.com/401-k-Is-it-possible-to-fund-both-a-So...

Re: SF Is One of the Worst-Paying Places in the US for Software Engineers

#30

Post by jjtheblunt »

tannhauser23 wrote: post #12
istorical wrote: post #3

I love seeing so many people re-package a news piece based on numbeo's cost of living model which is incredibly flawed and doesn't account for the wide variance of the cost of rent depending on whether one is single, is willing to live with roommates, is willing to deal with a longer commute, etc. Trying to develop a salary + cost of living model that doesn't take into account one's personal priorities and preference…

It's not SF/NY vs. Des Moines. It's SF/NY vs. Seattle/Austin/Denver/LA. Your examples don't disprove the article's main point, which is that the cost of living in the Bay Area (and New York) erodes much of the salary bump you get by working in those places. Paying $1200 to rent a bedroom is normal in NY and SF, but that price will get you an entire apartment or more in many other places. Look, to many of us, the Bay…

The answer is no.
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