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Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

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Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#291

Post by refurb »

csallen wrote: post #264
refurb wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're making the same mistake as the people you're chastizing. You're filtering this historical events through your own filter to create a good guy and bad guy. It's more complicated then that. I encourage you to dive into the details of Mossadegh's overthrow. Did the US and British encourage the coup? Sure. Was there significant opposition to his rule among Iranians? Definitely. I argue he would have been disposed…

I have, actually. Mossadegh was extremely popular, and actually had to be reinstated due to public outcry after his temporary removal. Did he eventually do some crazy things? Yes. But would that have happened without major foreign powers spending tons of money funding agitators and rebellion? Doubtful. Regardless, my initial point wasn't that the Iranian government under Mossadegh were the "good guys". It's that aver…

I don't think we're going to solve this here. A few thoughts: first off it wasn't a coup since the Shah had the power to dismiss Prime Ministers. Second, Iran had gone through more than a dozen Prime Ministers in that time period. Mossadegh was one of many who were booted out of office.

Claiming that if it weren't for the CIA that Mossadegh would have stayed in office and led a gov't with the confidence is the people is stretching it.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#292

Post by baursak »

starik36 wrote: post #288
fit2rule wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You simply need to listen to more Chomsky. That debate may not have had enough details - such is the nature of the format of the debate - but if one investigates Chomsky further, it is clear that the man lived his life in the details. His position, I believe, is formulated precisely on understanding the details and facts of the situation - it has been his life work to uncover the truth.

Can you suggest a debate where he does get into details of things?

Are you looking specifically for debates? Otherwise, I'd recommend reading "Understanding Power", which has ~450 pages of footnotes alone, to the point where they are not included in the book and published as a separate downloadable PDF: http://www.understandingpower.com/

Other than that, this ones seems to go into details: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68wFDvTBHys

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#293

Post by [deleted] »

wtbob wrote: post #206
shawabawa3 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The military also didn't go out of its way to punish recklessly shooting down a civilian aircraft. The guy should have been court martialed, but at the very least not given a medal

> The military also didn't go out of its way to punish recklessly shooting down a civilian aircraft. It wasn't reckless: it was the right call based on the data Vincennes had, which showed that an Iranian fighter was able to kill it.

[deleted]

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#294

Post by habosa »

What exactly do we (America) gain from doing a drone strike against your average 'terrorist' (I'll be generous and use their terminology). At this point the idea that we're there to control the oil is past its time. Many of these countries have pretty much nothing we can't get elsewhere. Is it just about projecting power? Paying military contractors? Some sick game.

I truly don't believe that our government is stocked with wannabe murderers but clearly we commit murder at a distance with this drone program. I just can't figure out why we do it.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#295

Post by habosa »

What exactly do we (America) gain from doing a drone strike against your average 'terrorist' (I'll be generous and use their terminology). At this point the idea that we're there to control the oil is past its time. Many of these countries have pretty much nothing we can't get elsewhere. Is it just about projecting power? Paying military contractors? Some sick game.

I truly don't believe that our government is stocked with wannabe murderers but clearly we commit murder at a distance with this drone program. I just can't figure out why we do it.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#296

Post by dang »

elastic_church wrote: post #223

They are taking your money to murder people. I'M KIDDING! Murder implies that there's any law to enforce whatsoever! I meant kill with premeditation!

You've been posting plenty of comments to HN that are either uncivil or unsubstantive or both. Please (re-)read the site guidelines and stop doing that.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#297

Post by scotty79 »

purple-again wrote: post #204
emptyfile wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

60 years was a long time ago?!

Everyone old enough to vote for the politicians in power at the time must be at least 78 years old now. How many people older than 78 are running our country right now? Yes it was a long time ago when nearly every adult alive at the time is dead now.

You just elected president that's 70. I bet at least a few 78s are running the country right now.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#298

Post by scotty79 »

bpodgursky wrote: post #17
educar wrote: post #5

If you still think of the world as divided into good and evil, then I have to break it to you that you have been played. Brainwashed by years and years of media programming. One man's terrorist is another man's hero. The U.S routinely bombs other sovereign countries and this is show cased as a "hero" activity. If the bombed people retaliate, they are terrorists. The truth is not black/white. Same way U.S data surveil…

> The U.S routinely bombs other sovereign countries and this is show cased as a "hero" activity There's a lot of nuance here, because there isn't really a (current) clear-cut case of the US bombing a sovereign nation where the government has not given the US permission. Of the current active campaigns: - Afghanistan - Iraq - Pakistan Each of these countries has a functioning government, even mostly democratically ele…

> if Pakistan told the US to stop using their airbases, it would happen.

Or the government would be replaced by more sympathetic one.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#299

Post by Someone »

wtbob wrote: post #285
kwhitefoot wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only because no one went out with binoculars to take a look.

The aircraft was 11 nautical miles away, which is over the horizon.

It's only over the horizon if the plane was flying below 200m or so (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon#Distance_to_the_horizo...)

I can't find conclusive evidence, but I think that's unlikely, given that the planned cruising height was 4300m (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655#Shootdown_...), and it was shot down about halfway through its flight.

I'm not sure whether using binoculars at 20km distance makes sense, though. There's quite a size difference, but even if it would be easy to spot the difference from that far away having half a minute or so to find the plane using your binoculars would be challenging (it's about a minute of flight for a passenger plane, but if it were military, you would want to hit it before it had a chance to fire a missile, and according to Wikipedia, the Maverick that they feared an Iranian F14 might carry has a range of over 12 nautical miles)

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#300

Post by e12e »

jacobush wrote: post #128
3131s wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Our "defense" of Vietnam. And most people only think of Vietnam itself regarding that conflict, yet Cambodia and Laos were absolutely decimated too. The US dropped more tons of bombs on Laos and Cambodia individually than the combined amount dropped by the allied forces in WWII. There are still 80 million unexploded bombs in the Laos countryside. Landmines sold by the US and China to the Lon Nol government and the…

Hence the songs Holiday in Cambodia by the Dead Kennedys and Cambodia by Kim Wilde.

See also: "Washington Bullets", "Charlie don't Surf" by "The Clash".
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