Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported • Hacker News Board

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#241

Post by grzm » Wed, Feb 08, 2017, 4:43 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #231

jasonkostempski wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think the HN crowd is the type to bury their heads in the sand? I don't get that impression. I'm on here all hours of the day and I see things like this hit the front page pretty regularly. They don't stay up long, I think, because they're a bit outside the targeted topics for this site.

You can't downvote things off the front page, but people can and do abuse the flag button for this. There's also an algorithmic penalty for "too controversial" topics with too many comments, I believe.

people can and do abuse the flag button for this

The flag link and the upvote button are both legitimate means for HN members to express whether they feel a submission is appropriate for HN.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#242

Post by tremendo » Wed, Feb 08, 2017, 4:48 PM UTC

shard972 wrote: post #174

jackvalentine wrote: post #8

President Trump wasn't wrong when he said terror attacks are under reported but sadly the underreported ones are committed by the United States and her allies. What exactly is the "big picture" I'm missing here that is achieved by levelling Yemen one mud brick building at a time?

And he wasn't wrong when he said in that recent super bowl interview "we aren't so innocent". Everyone is still jumping on him like he was saying the US is just the same as Russia, unable to accept the nuance that America has a lot of crimes to answer for.

When O'Reilly mentioned Putin, the person, being a killer, Trump answered that the U.S. (not a person) isn't so innocent either, which yes true, also clearly deflecting and avoiding saying or acknowledging anything bad about Putin. What immediately came to my mind was O'Reilly could have followed up with "is the President of the U.S. a killer?". I thought missed opportunity, but of course, that could have never aired.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#243

Post by arca_vorago » Wed, Feb 08, 2017, 4:53 PM UTC

'When war is declared, truth is the first casualty' - Arthur Ponsonby

Our issue should focus on the war itself, and less on the many untruths that have propagated because of it. For me, a primary question is one of constitutional power of the president to wage war, and if legislative actions such as the Authorization of Use of Military Force are sufficient enough to meet those constitutional requirements for checks and balances. I've listened to as many debates and talks on the subject as possible, and I think there is a lot of nuance ignored by the more radical right and left than there should be. In the end though, my primary issue (as a combat vet) is the complete misdirection of the American people for the true reasons of the war(s).

If truth is the first casualty, that may be to be expected, but at least tell us the truth about the reasons for the war(s) in the first place, otherwise even the founders recognized the dangers of the power of the executive to unilaterally wage war and declare emergencies and in doing so violate individual liberties.

I will say this though; I'm tired of hearing Kissinger style realpolitik subscribers abusing Hanlons razor in dismissing the idea of malice in such actions, for at some point not only is incompetence indetinguishable from malice, but incompetence is ripe for manipulation and abuse from malice.

The question is then, who is the malicous group, and what are their intentions?

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#244

Post by jacobush » Wed, Feb 08, 2017, 5:00 PM UTC

JackFr wrote: post #202

jacobush wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hence the songs Holiday in Cambodia by the Dead Kennedys and Cambodia by Kim Wilde.

I don't think you understand the lyrics to 'Holiday in Cambodia' 'The song is an attack on a stereotypical, moralizing, privileged American college student. ' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holiday_in_Cambodia

Maybe it was a bit of a stretch.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#245

Post by grzm » Wed, Feb 08, 2017, 5:03 PM UTC

tadufre wrote: post #185

this is not hacker news. if I wanted this dribble, I would have stayed on Slashdot.

If you feel a submission is inappropriate for HN, flag and move on. If you're new to HN, adding comments like this is just adding noise. Similar to the guidelines regarding comparing HN to Reddit, please refrain from making comments on HN submission quality until you've been around for a while.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#246

Post by austinjp » Wed, Feb 08, 2017, 5:11 PM UTC

megous wrote: post #48

amenghra wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some countries use cluster munition for some of their strikes. The usa last did this in 2009. The opposite of precise...

Cluster munitions are bad, but you have to consider that people often try to hide in houses, in cellars during air raids in the city. Cluster munition will not do much to those people, other than being insanely noisy and terrifying. What will kill those people is a bomb that will drop the house on them. Indiscriminate killing is a function of decision making process, not the munition itself.

The munition can't be removed from the chain, it's not a benign entity. From concept through design and production through to sale and use, the munition itself is a necessary element in the machinery of killing.

Downplaying the importance of the munition itself enables industrialised slaughter. The arms trade deals in munitions, and is a multi-billion dollar industry.

We can prevaricate all day about words like "defense", about how "guns don't kill people, people kill people", and about suggestions that "insanely terrifying" experiences "will not do much" to people. But language is important here, and you should consider carefully what you think and communicate about the weapons industry.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#247

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Feb 08, 2017, 5:19 PM UTC

csallen wrote: post #32

educar wrote: post #5

If you still think of the world as divided into good and evil, then I have to break it to you that you have been played. Brainwashed by years and years of media programming. One man's terrorist is another man's hero. The U.S routinely bombs other sovereign countries and this is show cased as a "hero" activity. If the bombed people retaliate, they are terrorists. The truth is not black/white. Same way U.S data surveil…

> If you still think of the world as divided into good and evil, then I have to break it to you that you have been played. People don't know the half of it, and in my experience, they don't want to know. It's comforting to feel like the good guys. The media is complicit, in that it intentionally leaves out relevant facts that might make us look bad. For example, take Iran. In 1953, we overthrew their democratically-e…

[deleted]

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#248

Post by refurb » Wed, Feb 08, 2017, 5:25 PM UTC

csallen wrote: post #32

educar wrote: post #5

If you still think of the world as divided into good and evil, then I have to break it to you that you have been played. Brainwashed by years and years of media programming. One man's terrorist is another man's hero. The U.S routinely bombs other sovereign countries and this is show cased as a "hero" activity. If the bombed people retaliate, they are terrorists. The truth is not black/white. Same way U.S data surveil…

> If you still think of the world as divided into good and evil, then I have to break it to you that you have been played. People don't know the half of it, and in my experience, they don't want to know. It's comforting to feel like the good guys. The media is complicit, in that it intentionally leaves out relevant facts that might make us look bad. For example, take Iran. In 1953, we overthrew their democratically-e…

You're making the same mistake as the people you're chastizing. You're filtering this historical events through your own filter to create a good guy and bad guy. It's more complicated then that.

I encourage you to dive into the details of Mossadegh's overthrow. Did the US and British encourage the coup? Sure. Was there significant opposition to his rule among Iranians? Definitely. I argue he would have been disposed regardless of US or British involvement.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#249

Post by Goronmon » Wed, Feb 08, 2017, 5:40 PM UTC

proee wrote: post #34

kurttheviking wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> i'm disappointed that i haven't seen a single member of the media or Democratic party establishments talk about Obama's expansion of the drone program. I have been hearing and reading about the expansion of Obama's drone program for years in "the media". Some quick Googling shows several examples. - http://www.npr.org/2013/04/28/179597464/leading-senate-democ... - http://www.npr.org/2012/06/20/155389081/are-drones-…

Just because you posted a few example articles, does not negate the fact that the media fails to provide front-page coverage of such an important issue.

Your personal ignorance to stories presented by the media doesn't prove that they are failing to cover important issues.

Re: Thousands of deadly U.S. military airstrikes have gone unreported

#250

Post by Agustus » Wed, Feb 08, 2017, 5:42 PM UTC

csallen wrote: post #32

educar wrote: post #5

If you still think of the world as divided into good and evil, then I have to break it to you that you have been played. Brainwashed by years and years of media programming. One man's terrorist is another man's hero. The U.S routinely bombs other sovereign countries and this is show cased as a "hero" activity. If the bombed people retaliate, they are terrorists. The truth is not black/white. Same way U.S data surveil…

> If you still think of the world as divided into good and evil, then I have to break it to you that you have been played. People don't know the half of it, and in my experience, they don't want to know. It's comforting to feel like the good guys. The media is complicit, in that it intentionally leaves out relevant facts that might make us look bad. For example, take Iran. In 1953, we overthrew their democratically-e…

Accidents do not make terrorists.

In the Iranian Air Flight incident, a gung-ho boat captain could not get a positive identification after being fired upon. There was no terroristic intent. Bad judgment, but not to the point where the captain intentionally fired upon a commercial aircraft. As for your comment about media notes, the Wikipedia article has a lot of notes.

The 1940's through 1960's actions of the military were in a period of United States of America's mercantilism that was fighting against a sea of red dominoes that were showing up daily. Does this make it right, one cannot say based on the information available at the time.

The fog of war is not easy and that is why the United States of America from the 80's on is so great, we have actively tried to be a better nation. I want to read about this stuff and see that after the cruiser incident happened, there was an investigation and a new approach put in place.