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Why many Indian politicians have a criminal record

economist.com

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Re: Why many Indian politicians have a criminal record

#91

Post by puranjay »

abverma wrote: post #23

Rampant corruption has turned a lot of people into cynics in India. The phrase "Kuch nahi ho sakda India da. China dekh lo kithe pahunch gya" (Nothing will happen in India. See the development in China) gets thrown around a lot in a conversation. It isn't a problem that affects a single party, both the ruling BJP and the Congress have the same issues. The problem with BJP being our Dear Leader being rather illiterate…

This is what makes AAP's victory in Delhi not so surprising. Delhi is far richer than the rest of India; blatant bribery doesn't work quite as well here as it would be in another state

Re: Why many Indian politicians have a criminal record

#92

Post by puranjay »

credo wrote: post #47

India does have a high level of criminality and corruption in politics, but it is different from the U.S. in one aspect. An Indian politician who brags about sexual assault and doesn't even deny video-taped evidence of the bragging .... would have no chance of being elected as Prime Minister. As we demonstrated in November, American voters have a much higher tolerance level when it comes to electing our president.

Um, we kinda elected a Prime Minister who was either complicit, or willfully incompetent during a large scale riot.

I'm sorry, but "pussy grabbing" is nothing compared to Narendra Modi's history.

Re: Why many Indian politicians have a criminal record

#93

Post by pkd »

ActsJuvenile wrote: post #83
sonink wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you buy votes if the ballot is secret ? Not saying that people don't try, and there is that odd politician who does come only from money. By and large most chief ministers victory can be explained not by money, but more by identity/group based politics. This is pretty much also exactly the same to what happens in the US.

Paid voters are given pre-filled ballots. They go inside polling station, drop the prefilled ballot in the box, and bring new blank ballot outside to paymaster to collect their cash.

That's not how elections work in India anymore. We've not had ballots to fill for almost 20 years now.

Re: Why many Indian politicians have a criminal record

#94

Post by pkd »

RestlessMind wrote: post #46

There are some comments in this thread bringing out examples of corruption in the West. While Western societies are by no means perfect and have their own warts, they are much better than India when it comes to corruption, effective judiciary, free press or tolerance for scandals. People typically vote with their feet. If you have any doubts about which society treats its citizens better, just look at how many Indian…

Indians want to immigrate because of the much higher pay and savings in the western economies compared to the pay for the same job locally.

I am sure a lot of people are motivated by the much more modern western culture as well but I can assure you that money is the motivation for the majority, as condescending as that sounds.

Re: Why many Indian politicians have a criminal record

#95

Post by pkd »

silentguy wrote: post #58
credo wrote: post #47

India does have a high level of criminality and corruption in politics, but it is different from the U.S. in one aspect. An Indian politician who brags about sexual assault and doesn't even deny video-taped evidence of the bragging .... would have no chance of being elected as Prime Minister. As we demonstrated in November, American voters have a much higher tolerance level when it comes to electing our president.

I beg to differ here. In India, you can be elected as a PM if you have large social media brigade. Our current PM has charges of rioting against him and he won by huge margin by using effective PR and his social media brigade.

I am not saying he was not indirectly responsible for the riots, but he has been cleared from those charges.

Re: Why many Indian politicians have a criminal record

#96

Post by guru110 »

andrewvijay wrote: post #2

I'm an Indian and can verify that. A lot of scumbags keep winning and hold onto power here usually by hook or crook. In fact even the prime Minister modi was on a mass murdering case of Gujarat 2002. He was the chief minister when the riots Happened!! That guy has still not even apologized or said sorry to the families whose people were killed. The current govt has the largest share of criminals in power. There are s…

I dont know why such scumbags expect an apology from Modi. Supreme Court gave him clean chit. I am from Ahmedabad and whenever I see the reference of 2002 riots, I know its from ignorant people outside of Gujarat and who doesnt know anything about Godhara incident. He did what he could as a CM, only outsiders (non-gujjus) still find he is the one should be blamed. What a pitty! 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godhra_train_burning

Re: Why many Indian politicians have a criminal record

#97

Post by andrewvijay »

guru110 wrote: post #96
andrewvijay wrote: post #2

I'm an Indian and can verify that. A lot of scumbags keep winning and hold onto power here usually by hook or crook. In fact even the prime Minister modi was on a mass murdering case of Gujarat 2002. He was the chief minister when the riots Happened!! That guy has still not even apologized or said sorry to the families whose people were killed. The current govt has the largest share of criminals in power. There are s…

I dont know why such scumbags expect an apology from Modi. Supreme Court gave him clean chit. I am from Ahmedabad and whenever I see the reference of 2002 riots, I know its from ignorant people outside of Gujarat and who doesnt know anything about Godhara incident. He did what he could as a CM, only outsiders (non-gujjus) still find he is the one should be blamed. What a pitty! 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godhra…

Because its the basic responsibility of a chief minister to be accountable for the violence that happened as the law and order is under him. I know its very wrong to expect apologies from barbaric cunts.

Re: Why many Indian politicians have a criminal record

#98

Post by tumbling_stone »

sonink wrote: post #36
sg47 wrote: post #5

I have another theory. You don't get votes in India. You buy them. A wannabe politician needs a lot of money to win an election. Criminals who have made money through bootlegging or by beating up people have a leg up in this respect. Once they get to power, they indulge in corruption to pay off the people who helped them win and to save for the next election. The next election, they have more money to pay the average…

How do you buy votes if the ballot is secret ? Not saying that people don't try, and there is that odd politician who does come only from money. By and large most chief ministers victory can be explained not by money, but more by identity/group based politics. This is pretty much also exactly the same to what happens in the US.

Politicians don't dole out cash and go pray that the voters will honor their agreement. They have a way of making sure that their bought votes are delivered to them.

Buying votes happens mostly in slums and other non-affluent areas. These are the places where the concept of privacy hasn't yet formed and everybody knows what everybody else is doing. Also, a politician is not expected to work for them his whole term. It is natural to see your local representative only during the times of election. So politicians have the two key ingredients to enforce an implicit contract. But the biggest weapon these politicians have is intimidation. Since it's not hard to mostly figure out the faction that refused to vote for the money they took, they can be persecuted and intimidated.

Of course there's no official source to cite this. My driver is very chatty and quite insightful about the politics in India.

Re: Why many Indian politicians have a criminal record

#99

Post by peteretep »

marklgr wrote: post #72
peteretep wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you provide some contemporary examples in Scandinavian or Western Europe of where organized crime has had a blind eye turned to it as a result of using mafia-sponsored "muscle"?

The muscle part is mostly historical, up to the '80s maybe. Now it's more about money eg. to fund campaigns. Cf. Berlusconi, Sarkozy. Scandinavia is the poster child for ethics, and from what I know I would say rightly so, but it's not representative of Western Europe as a whole.

I think I was incorrectly using Western Europe to mean Western Europe minus Southern Europe. I don't believe this happens in France, Germany, Holland, the U.K., etc

Your inclusion of Sarkozy surprises me. Googling for Sarkozy and mafia is bringing me a bunch of antisemitic sites and a site called info-resistance — do you have any reliable sources?

Re: Why many Indian politicians have a criminal record

#100

Post by adictator »

andrewvijay wrote: post #7
adictator wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In fact even the prime Minister modi was on a mass murdering case of Gujarat 2002. He was the chief minister when the riots Happened!! That guy has still not even apologized or said sorry to the families whose people were killed. I think you should stop whatever you are doing and get appointed as a judge in the Supreme Court of India. Obviously you know so much more than what they know or have deduced about crimina…

did you not read the word 'was' ? Im not saying he is a mass murderer. Im only saying he was on the case for long. Your insecurity about this only makes me even more suspicious.

WTF man! Just because people do not agree with you, they become "insecure"? Unless you have been living under a rock or deep inside a cave you should know that almost every political party in India as well as many international NGO's, including our very own Hillary Clinton were out to "Get Modi". There were at least two Special Task Forces (STFs) that said there is no evidence of Modi being involved in the killings. He was the CM at that time, that was his only fault. The Courts in India have given him a clean chit, this was when he was a mere CM, at a time when the Congress party was in power. I mean, you got be really dense...

And what's with the 'was'? Just because you claim someone "was" a mass murderer, you can absolve yourself when every known & serious inquiry against him proves otherwise? Please try to be objective & analytical. Look up facts. Just because you like things to be a certain way does not make it so. Try to understand the divisive politic people play, but their best hands couldn't prove what was false.

I meant it seriously - if anyone can prove that he is guilty, go and make your case. Stop being a keyboard warrior!!

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