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Why many Indian politicians have a criminal record

economist.com

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Re: Why many Indian politicians have a criminal record

#81

Post by sametmax »

kumarm wrote: post #3

The Article doesn't cover basics of Criminality of Indian Politicians. These are just two example in last week from 1 south Indian state caught on camera (Because Local media would not cover since pretty much media in state supports ruling party): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOueUSVSuYk [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hG2fqW-tcM [2] Very rarely criminality of Indian politicians comes out because Media do not…

Most occidental countries have corrupted politicians as well. They are just better at playing the system to never be convicted.

In France the elite is incredibly good at it. The best example of this is Charles Pasqua. He has been linked to many, many, manyyyyyyyy shady cases, but every time found innocent : https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Pasqua

What's coming now is worst. The old generation was trying to cover their track. The new one doesn't even bother. They are exposed, play a little TV game, and then carry on like nothing happened. It works so why not ?

Re: Why many Indian politicians have a criminal record

#82

Post by AstralStorm »

sonink wrote: post #52
RestlessMind wrote: post #46

There are some comments in this thread bringing out examples of corruption in the West. While Western societies are by no means perfect and have their own warts, they are much better than India when it comes to corruption, effective judiciary, free press or tolerance for scandals. People typically vote with their feet. If you have any doubts about which society treats its citizens better, just look at how many Indian…

If people voted with their feet, how do you explain Bush and Trump ?

You cannot vote with your feet if you cannot leave, and leaving takes both money and will.

Re: Why many Indian politicians have a criminal record

#83

Post by ActsJuvenile »

sonink wrote: post #36
sg47 wrote: post #5

I have another theory. You don't get votes in India. You buy them. A wannabe politician needs a lot of money to win an election. Criminals who have made money through bootlegging or by beating up people have a leg up in this respect. Once they get to power, they indulge in corruption to pay off the people who helped them win and to save for the next election. The next election, they have more money to pay the average…

How do you buy votes if the ballot is secret ? Not saying that people don't try, and there is that odd politician who does come only from money. By and large most chief ministers victory can be explained not by money, but more by identity/group based politics. This is pretty much also exactly the same to what happens in the US.

Paid voters are given pre-filled ballots. They go inside polling station, drop the prefilled ballot in the box, and bring new blank ballot outside to paymaster to collect their cash.

Re: Why many Indian politicians have a criminal record

#84

Post by sametmax »

aisofteng wrote: post #34
anondon wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The videos you linked were so hard to watch. > India is a land of lawlessness and that's a reality. It's a little more subtle : well connected people to whatever they want and get away with no consequences. People who dare to oppose these powerful people discover the true meaning of hell. It's true practically everywhere in the world including the US. IMO for all the shit that social networks receive (for good reason…

>People who dare to oppose these powerful people discover the true meaning of hell. It's true practically everywhere in the world including the US. It can be true in the US, but it definitely is not the norm. This statement rings false. For all the problems the US has, yes including corruption in some places, it is almost entirely unique in its freedom of speech and its allowance for political opposition without fear…

It's because in the US, corruption is just legal thanks to lobbying.

Plus, you are in a country where you can go to war to satisfy your friends benefit. Lie blatantly about the motives. Spend billions of dollars for it in a country in massive debt. Get caught doing so. Yet ignore international instutiions, go kill thousands of people anyway and get away with it.

You are in a country bailing the banks that ruined themself.

You are in a country where it's legal to snatch somebody without a trial. Where you can get in secret prisons and be tortured. All that justified by events that killed less people than the flu.

Where massive surveillance is allowed by politicians for security, yet they ban all attempt of transparency on their own actions.

The only difference with India is that they are better at it :

- they don't make it obvious and chocking enough so that it leads to a strong reaction

- they use all the tricks in the book to divert attention

But in the end, the US is so corrupted it could be a case study for future historians.

France is pretty much the same, mind you. We have just less guns and more smug.

Re: Why many Indian politicians have a criminal record

#85

Post by tn13 »

The article fails to differentiate between charges and conviction. In India anyone can get charged for a crime no one ever gets conviction.

As an Indian I think Criminality of Indian Politicians is a non issue. Very few of the politicians are actual hard criminals. Most face charges that anyone in important position is likely to face.

Nearly all my politician friends have been in jail and have criminal records but I can vouch they are pretty good people.

India does not uniform laws and far too many laws to deal with the exactly same crime.

Examples: 1. One of my friend has been fighting in court for last 7 years over a case registered on him by his political opponent. My friend called him "asshole". However as per Indian law it is a crime to abuse a person if the person belongs to specific caste (SC/ST) not just that, the police are required to register the case even if they think the charges are frivolous or unsubstantiated. This gentleman has been visiting court every few months. The charges will be dropped some day as a political bargaining chip.

2. I barely escaped having a criminal record when I participated in a political movement. The cops basically filed any random charges against the protestors including molestation, attempt to murder and what not. I escaped because I had a fake ID card with fake name on it.

3. A lot of civil offenses are "crimes" in India.

For example you are CEO of a publishing company that publishes a scholarly book on world mythologies. Some person files a complain saying you (CEO) has hurt the sentiments of public which is a criminal offense. India Ebay CEO was arrested as a criminal becomes someone sold a CD on the website that had porn clip in it !

4. Courts that don't work.

Indian courts spend time only on cases that make the judges popular. Such as cases that involve celebrities or cricket. That is why conviction rates are next to nothing. One Indian celebrity recently got acquited from tow major crimes after around 12 years of fight.

5. Drinking wine or beer might be a crime in some states and in one state they want to give capital punishment for the same.

6. Eating beef might be a criminal offense.

Re: Why many Indian politicians have a criminal record

#86

Post by tn13 »

sametmax wrote: post #84
aisofteng wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>People who dare to oppose these powerful people discover the true meaning of hell. It's true practically everywhere in the world including the US. It can be true in the US, but it definitely is not the norm. This statement rings false. For all the problems the US has, yes including corruption in some places, it is almost entirely unique in its freedom of speech and its allowance for political opposition without fear…

It's because in the US, corruption is just legal thanks to lobbying. Plus, you are in a country where you can go to war to satisfy your friends benefit. Lie blatantly about the motives. Spend billions of dollars for it in a country in massive debt. Get caught doing so. Yet ignore international instutiions, go kill thousands of people anyway and get away with it. You are in a country bailing the banks that ruined them…

Lobbying is a good thing and as Indian citizen I wish it was legal in India. It helps small groups unite and openly and transparently seek legislative changes they want. In India you bribe secretly. The party wants all funds channeled to party supremo so they changes laws to make sure Individual legislators can not pass any bills of their own against party wishes. So that wont happen in India. We will always have to pay bribes secretly.

>Plus, you are in a country where you can go to war to satisfy your friends benefit.

India does not have financial muscle to start a war but Indian government starts projects to help friends all the time.

> You are in a country bailing the banks that ruined themself.

Almost all major Indian banks are owned by state heavily mismanaged and completely inefficient. They run as jobs program and are every year bailed out using taxpayer money.

>You are in a country where it's legal to snatch somebody without a trial. Where you can get in secret prisons and be tortured. All that justified by events that killed less people than the flu.

Indian government can put you in jail for years without trial. Even for a high profile celebrity case takes on an average 10 years to conclude.

>Where massive surveillance is allowed by politicians for security, yet they ban all attempt of transparency on their own actions.

There is no privacy in India. If the cop asks you to undress you better do.

Re: Why many Indian politicians have a criminal record

#87

Post by puranjay »

kumarm wrote: post #3

The Article doesn't cover basics of Criminality of Indian Politicians. These are just two example in last week from 1 south Indian state caught on camera (Because Local media would not cover since pretty much media in state supports ruling party): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOueUSVSuYk [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hG2fqW-tcM [2] Very rarely criminality of Indian politicians comes out because Media do not…

As an Indian, there are two things I take for granted:

1. Politicians, by default, are corrupt. They are also not to be trifled with - if I accidentally bump into a small-time politician's car at a signal, I'm hightailing it out of there lest I get beaten up.

2. If I get into trouble (especially with a politician or a well-connected person), the last person I'll turn to for help are the cops.

Re: Why many Indian politicians have a criminal record

#88

Post by sametmax »

tn13 wrote: post #86
sametmax wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because in the US, corruption is just legal thanks to lobbying. Plus, you are in a country where you can go to war to satisfy your friends benefit. Lie blatantly about the motives. Spend billions of dollars for it in a country in massive debt. Get caught doing so. Yet ignore international instutiions, go kill thousands of people anyway and get away with it. You are in a country bailing the banks that ruined them…

Lobbying is a good thing and as Indian citizen I wish it was legal in India. It helps small groups unite and openly and transparently seek legislative changes they want. In India you bribe secretly. The party wants all funds channeled to party supremo so they changes laws to make sure Individual legislators can not pass any bills of their own against party wishes. So that wont happen in India. We will always have to…

Oh this is not a contest of India vs US. Corruption in India is terrible. I'm just saying the US has no advice to give in the matter.

Re: Why many Indian politicians have a criminal record

#89

Post by puranjay »

anondon wrote: post #11
kumarm wrote: post #3

The Article doesn't cover basics of Criminality of Indian Politicians. These are just two example in last week from 1 south Indian state caught on camera (Because Local media would not cover since pretty much media in state supports ruling party): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOueUSVSuYk [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hG2fqW-tcM [2] Very rarely criminality of Indian politicians comes out because Media do not…

The videos you linked were so hard to watch. > India is a land of lawlessness and that's a reality. It's a little more subtle : well connected people to whatever they want and get away with no consequences. People who dare to oppose these powerful people discover the true meaning of hell. It's true practically everywhere in the world including the US. IMO for all the shit that social networks receive (for good reason…

You are severely exaggerating the US and severely underreporting the state of lawlessness in India.

You can get shot for simply brushing some up jumped real estate dealer's car in the capital city - a friend's colleague had to learn the hard way.

Re: Why many Indian politicians have a criminal record

#90

Post by doodyhead »

aisofteng wrote: post #34
anondon wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The videos you linked were so hard to watch. > India is a land of lawlessness and that's a reality. It's a little more subtle : well connected people to whatever they want and get away with no consequences. People who dare to oppose these powerful people discover the true meaning of hell. It's true practically everywhere in the world including the US. IMO for all the shit that social networks receive (for good reason…

>People who dare to oppose these powerful people discover the true meaning of hell. It's true practically everywhere in the world including the US. It can be true in the US, but it definitely is not the norm. This statement rings false. For all the problems the US has, yes including corruption in some places, it is almost entirely unique in its freedom of speech and its allowance for political opposition without fear…

> ...it is almost entirely unique in its freedom of speech and its allowance for political opposition without fear of retribution as a modus operandi.

This is a common misconception of Americans and is blatantly untrue. America is absolutely not the only free country in the world and, in some areas, it is less free.

Take press freedom, for instance: the US currently ranks 41st:

https://rsf.org/en/ranking

There are plenty of other fully democratic countries in the world, where freedom of speech is accepted, encouraged, and enshrined in well-respected laws.

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