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YC Research: Universal Healthcare

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81–90 of 359 posts

Re: YC Research: Universal Healthcare

#81
I have argued in favor of Single Payer systems on the basis of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopsony . When buyers don't compete on price, then the price goes down. This is also known as "collective bargaining power".

You can see this borne out in the fact every developed country with a universal healthcare plan gets cheaper prices, often for the same or better outcomes than the USA. Including number of doctors per capita, which disproves the "shortages" myth. Domestically in the USA, Medicare squeezes doctors far more than other insurance companies. A "medicare for all" would do even better.

After the libertarians and anarcho-capitalists try to claim superior economic knowledge eventually they must admit simple supply and demand drives prices down in a single payer system.

But then I get the following objection: what about all the R&D that we do? Perhaps all that expensive health care in the USA results in better procedures and medical equipment, better trained doctors etc. ?

To this I say ... OPEN SOURCE DRUGS! http://magarshak.com/blog/?p=93

If you can introduce a patentleft movement in drugs the same as you have done in software, then innovations can come from anywhere.

And failing that, we can always do this compensation model: https://qbix.com/blog/index.php/2016/11/properly-valuing-con...

Re: YC Research: Universal Healthcare

#83
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the united states we can't successfully implement negotiation on drug prices for MediCare. They literally can't negotiate with their suppliers. By law. On the flip side, Medicare sets reimbursement rates for services essentially by fiat[0], which can be below the marginal costs of providing service. Most providers cannot legally refuse to treat Medicare patients, so they are forced to accept the rates that Medic…

I see this argument in many places. Who dictates the cost of providing services? Why are these costs so high? My pet theory is the insane costs (money, time, high selectivity) of medical training and office overhead. Medical professionals feel entitled to $$ for their risk. Perhaps older specialists who didn't have these costs are spoiled. I would love to see how tuition amnesty would affect price elasticity.

The costs you typically see quoted are from the chargemaster that hospitals are required to keep. That's not what's actually paid, but rather the starting point for a negotiation (or what you are billed if uninsured).

One reason for the inflated chargemaster prices (e.g. $100 for a tylenol) is that payers (Medicare is a big one) simply negotiate by saying "I'll pay you 50% of your chargemaster". Then when the hospital updates their chargemaster, they tack on another 20% and the payer comes back and says "I'll pay you 25% of your chargemaster".

It's a vicious cycle where the chargemaster prices have no bearing on reality.

Re: YC Research: Universal Healthcare

#84
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most providers cannot legally refuse to treat Medicare patients My understanding is that doctors can choose not to take Medicare patients. Do you have a link or something that explains this?

> My understanding is that doctors can choose not to take Medicare patients. Sort of. For example, most emergency rooms in which physicians have admitting privileges to an associated hospital are required to take Medicare[0]. And those emergency rooms are prohibited from refusing patients based on insurance status. So right off the bat, that's an enormous source of patients who could be publicly insured (Medicare/Med…

> Staff isn't shared between the hospitals day-to-day

It probably is; it's quite common for fair numbers of hospital staff (e.g., OR staff that are needed only for certain types of procedures), AFAIK, to be provided by third-party contractors that provide service to multiple hospitals in the same area, and the same staff may work at different hospitals on different days based on need.

Re: YC Research: Universal Healthcare

#85
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like, there's too much sugar that people are using. It's doesn't matter if it's corn syrup or not.

Yes, but I would posit that the greatest reason that it has become such a problem is because of the subsidization that makes corn syrup so inexpensive. It's a massive negative externality that is completely unpriced.

In part, but there is sugar or corn syrup in so many products, especially US products, where there is really no good reason for either.

Re: YC Research: Universal Healthcare

#86
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> healthcare professionals are very good at organizing and negotiating Hardly - if that were the case, we wouldn't see so many private practices (and even hospitals) going straight out of business. > but doctors actively prevent foreigners from being allowed to practice medicine in their jurisdiction. This isn't really true either - it's true that there are restrictions around practicing (e.g.) in the US without comp…

Doctors without borders disagrees with your assessment in the USA.[1] [1] https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/11/doctors-w...

> Doctors without borders disagrees with your assessment in the USA.

Not really - I didn't say that the barriers don't exist. I said that doctors aren't the ones responsible for them.

Requiring one year of residency in the US is not an unreasonable requirement, for a number of reasons. But the bottleneck in the number of residency slots is the funding for them (which is subsidized by Medicare), and doctors aren't even responsible for this requirement anyway.

The AMA, by the way, is not a representative body of doctors - only 25% of doctors actually belong to the AMA.

Re: YC Research: Universal Healthcare

#87
I'm a patient with an auto-immune disorder. I'm going to share some of my lessons/surprising things I learned in healthcare/drug discovery.

I did YC fellowship with a healthcare startup in the clinical trials space. I am one of Watsi's biggest fans(zero hedge) and excited to see them go after this.

Here's some hard things I learned over 8 months entrenched in industry, meeting everyone from Hospital execs to drug development experts.

* The top of the funnel is screwed by food environments in the USA. Completely preventable metabolic syndrome accounts for a large percentage of clinical trials research.

* One of the unfortunate realities in the USA is that a lot of our advanced drug research is financed by metabolic syndrome related drugs. There's 8K clinical trials a year and a non-trivial percentage are from metabolic syndrome related problems.

* We have a patent system that encourages developing drugs that interact with a small number of enzymes and molecules that we already know and understand how they operate. Low, if not zero risk.

* The rules around patenting pathways, treatment methodologies, research tools, and assays are flawed/seem poorly designed. As an outsider looking in, these things seem like a paralyzing bottleneck for the industry. These need to be looked at much closer.

* GPO Squeezing. The manner in which GPOs squeeze medical device companies to create an artificial monopoly and drive prices up has to be examined in a much closer way.

* Ground game & Synthetic chemistry- The reason startups in the pharma space get acquired based on my dicussions with R&D folks at multiple Fortune 500 pharma companies is two fold. 1/ The drug companies have enough sales reps to push product fast. There's massive room for some sort of disruption here to allow small scale medical device and pharma startups to push product. 2/ This one's tough, but the large pharma companies have enough money to do all the synthetic chemistry to go from lab to scale. That's changing though. What used to be a $400M requirement has shifted to a $100M requirement, but we'll see how this evolves. It's a lot different from software. The know-how is extremely well hidden behind private walls.

* Aggregated healthcare and genomic data has little value. There's 68,000 genetic marker tests on the market and 8-10 new ones come out each day. Knowing what they do and/or how they create proteins that block/assist efforts is a monstrously tough problem that isn't waiting for computation, but is waiting for actual experiments on humans.

* The mathematical complexity of drug discovery is hard. Even if the data is maximized, the throughput of discovery is low. We have 7Bn people, 15K diseases, and 3Bn genetic base pairs. Bonferonni Corrections and Family wise error rate abound. We're not waiting for super computers or for an ease of aggregating data.

* The tricky part of selling to hospitals is that you have to create ROI within 6 months.

If anyone here is building a healthcare venture or drug discovery venture and believes I can help, don't hesitate to reach out.

Godspeed.

Re: YC Research: Universal Healthcare

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet making structural changes so that cost of care is more visible to patients would help a lot in the US. Of course this means disincentivizing health care as a benefit rather than incentivizing it, so it will never happen. It is kind of happening with things like HSAs, but not really. We should also work on removing arbitrary barriers to entering the supply side of the market. Not just for individuals that want t…

I agree, opacity is a big part of the problem. I'm super-excited about Castlight Health ( http://www.castlighthealth.com/ ) and how they approach the problem (by presenting cost/value scatters and other ways)...but...how obscene is it that we as a country should even need such a service!?

Good point. I am a bit sad that Castlight seems to be struggling and the stock price is pretty low. I thought it had a good mission and solution.

Re: YC Research: Universal Healthcare

#89
post #33

(Full-time co-founder of a healthcare startup here): W/r/t the US specifically: it seems there is no shortage of inefficiencies and obvious solutions to the inefficiencies in the US healthcare system. To me, the real problem seems to be a system that has almost diabolically evolved to create competing interests that deadlock all sides into a sub-optimal solution. Specifically-- patients, payers, physicians, pharma, f…

In the united states we can't successfully implement negotiation on drug prices for MediCare . They literally can't negotiate with their suppliers. By law. Anybody thinking software is going to solve that is way in a bubble. http://healthaffairs.org/blog/2016/09/19/the-politics-of-med...

If you think that policy is pure benefit for consumers and the only costs are to greedy mustache-twirling men, then there may be another bubble going on.

It would mean that the US uses its leverage to push drug prices down to marginal costs, which would almost be the last domino in payers willing to pay for something like the value of new drugs. But drug development doesn't make sense if you can only charge marginal costs.

The downsides of such a policy are going to be felt long-term; nothing is as simple as "we pay less and they get less".

Re: YC Research: Universal Healthcare

#90
Interestingly, we already discovered a mechanism for drastically reducing the cost of healthcare back in 1986. It's a way of crowdsourcing the problem called high copays. Basically, you have to pay out of pocket for 90% of your health care up to a (high) cap.

It turns out that patients are very good at figuring out which health care will improve health and which won't - the high copay group had no statistically significant difference in health from the low copay group, and spent about 30% less money. What a crazy magic bullet, huh?

http://www.rand.org/health/projects/hie.html

We ran a directionally similar experiment in 2008, and got much the same result: low copayment causes people to consume a lot more medicine, but with no objectively measurable improvement in health. (Subjectively, people with insurance feel healthier even if they never go to the doctor.)

https://www.nber.org/oregon/

In both cases we ignored the result because we don't like it.

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