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FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

theintercept.com

231–240 of 321 posts

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#231
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man this alt-right spam has been getting out of hand on HN recently. I hope dang does something about it.

For starters, he could issue a statement of neutrality instead of giving into the "diversity" ideologues and H1B pimps. Those two groups are the most dangerous and disruptive. Uber's Travis Kalanick cowed to pressure from weak activists that had no leverage, very sad and I hope more don't give into fear and hatred. We can get through this together.

Criticizing Uber's PR response right after casting "disruption" pejoratively is quite a trick. Uber? Not disrupting enough. Protestors? Way too much!

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#232
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For starters, he could issue a statement of neutrality instead of giving into the "diversity" ideologues and H1B pimps. Those two groups are the most dangerous and disruptive. Uber's Travis Kalanick cowed to pressure from weak activists that had no leverage, very sad and I hope more don't give into fear and hatred. We can get through this together.

You're projecting. When you drool about people who are against fascism being "subjugated", anyone who stands up to you isn't "giving in to fear and hatred", they're showing it the door.

> When you drool

This is a violation of HN's rules regardless of how wrong someone else is. Please don't do it again.

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#233
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in the USA, people didn't wake up one day and say "Gee, bigger government would be awesome". The growth of government is a direct response to constant abuses at the hands of smaller local government, corporations, and wealthy individuals. I have never heard a proposal for "shrink the state" that manages to address that underlying truth. If there isn't an existing avenue to achieve power then power-hungry peo…

> The growth of government is a direct response to constant abuses at the hands of smaller local government, corporations, and wealthy individuals. Or maybe it's a direct response to the fact that the people who have the power to grow the government also work for the government and are therefore incentivized to grow the government. Which idiot is going around saying "wow, this one level of government sucks, I'd bette…

> I think you're also wrong that local governments are frequently committing abuses; the federal government seems to do that much more frequently

I think I read a study not too long ago that indicated state and local governments actually had much higher corruption than the federal government. I tried to find it now; the best I could come up with was an article from nymag [1]. It's an interesting read, and one of the interesting tidbits it notes is that state house elections track US house elections with a correlation of 0.96, in other words, much less accountability at that level. Perhaps one of the reasons why the federal government seems more abusive than local governments is that it gets more media attention.

[1] http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/09/ferguson-worst-...

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#234

The difference is that the leaders (Linda Sarsour to name one) of things like the womens march are, to borrow a phrase from someone, deplorable people. By contrast, the people you're talking about on the right are properly and quietly marginalized. The right tell the deplorable people on their side to shut up and fuck off home, the left champion them and put them on stage (like the unrepentant child rapist Lena Dunha…

[deleted]

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#235

The difference is that the leaders (Linda Sarsour to name one) of things like the womens march are, to borrow a phrase from someone, deplorable people. By contrast, the people you're talking about on the right are properly and quietly marginalized. The right tell the deplorable people on their side to shut up and fuck off home, the left champion them and put them on stage (like the unrepentant child rapist Lena Dunha…

Overheated ideological rhetoric is destructive of the kind of discussion we're trying for on HN, and will eventually get your account banned. Please stop posting like this.

We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13570249 and marked it off-topic.

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was one a couple of days ago at Berkeley where 150 or so masked people smashed windows and set things on fire in an attempt to block a conservative from speaking there. Causing $100k in damage to private property in order to curtail other's free speech isn't something that should be glossed over or minimized by calling it protesting. There's the riot at NYU where more violent agitators showed up to prevent Gavi…

I was at that protest in Berkeley and your claims are exaggerated. I've written here extensively on what was objectionable about the speaker's visit there and why I think the protests were justified. You should consider that a supporter of that speaker shot someone at a similar event only days earlier. If you are concerned about violence as you claim then I think rather outranks some broken windows and a burnt-out ge…

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you don't mean to downplay what actually happened, or to imply that two wrongs make a right, or to present your limited experience of the event as evidence that it was hardly worth bringing up in the first place. But at the same time, we both know arguing any other view point isn't going to matter. It is absolutely exhausting trying to have an effective debate about politics here. I'm wrong before I even hit reply.

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think we can ever expect that level of engagement. People don't engage because the ROI just isn't there. When America first became independent it was a much smaller body; their votes and conversations mattered. I did some calcs once and it would have been like voting along with 4 sq miles of Chicago. Now, voting with tens or hundreds of millions of others, there's just no incentive to be involved. It might be…

What about at the local level? People barely know what their councils and mayors are up to.

Most of these problems are related to the emergence of the federated mass media that seriously changed the way people received information and shared ideas.

The American Revolution was, in no small part, sparked by one man's widely circulated pamphlet. As radio and TV with extremely high production values became dominant and the accepted standard, the relative credibility of a pamphlet from some guy you've never heard of before plummeted. People could still self-publish and make small runs, but when contrasted with the professional output from a slick media company, there's no contest as to which report your average person would be more likely to accept.

Media has been in corporate control for the last 100 years or so. Why is the draconian extent of our intellectual property regime widely despised and mocked by those lucky enough to be clued in to its absurdity, yet almost never discussed in the news? Because the small handful of companies with a TV studio and an FCC license have a vested interest in keeping the curtain drawn on the Great and Powerful Oz. They don't risk attempting a propaganda backfire on the topics they're really worried about; they just refuse to discuss them, and for the last 100 years, that's been enough to make counter-corporate effectively silent.

As mass media and telecommunication via phones made it feasible to communicate with people across the country in a matter of minutes, people sort of stopped seeing why they needed to go to a local authority (who could easily be overruled by other competing local authorities) when they could go straight to the highest authority. Combine this with the fact that the highest production values and most recognizable faces were covering the national beats, and that local news outlets can't go more finite than the state and sometimes county level for practical reasons, and you have a recipe for a populace that knows nothing about their immediate political leaders.

The internet has democratized mass media and given a credible voice back to the little, non-corporate guy, after 100 years lost in the darkness. And that really makes the corporate propagandists mad.

A lot of problems today flow out from struggling with and trying to learn how to handle the closeness that has been afforded by things like instant telecommunications and fast, reliable interstate transportation across the sky and the nation's highways. One non-political example: neighborliness is going away (as is socialization in general).

In former times, people relied on their neighbors and neighborhood because they had to. You couldn't exist in a physical space without having a moral responsibility to it and the people around it. Now that everyone's friends and families live in their pockets, "neighborly" relations, in the classical sense, are disappearing. My family and I have lived in half-a-dozen different places over our marriage so far, and in each case, we've never had a nextdoor neighbor come introduce themselves or welcome us to the neighborhood. And to be fair, we've never done this as neighbors have moved in and out around us either.

tl;dr Mass media, shipping, and telephones made it so people only needed to care about federal level anymore.

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#239
post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't take threads here on generic ideological tangents. Those are predictable and therefore uninteresting by the standard we're trying for here. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13570278 and marked it off-topic.

Call your ideological adversaries "fascists" and "brownshirts." Just fine by Dang. So much for "light touches." The mask slips, sir.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13571166

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13110004

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#240

There is a group who have proposed a solution to this problem for decades: Shrink the state. Until people stop believing that any effort to do so will result in everyone literally dying in the street, the state will grow. Until people's first impulse towards someone doing something they don't like ceases to be "there ought to be a law", the state will grow. Until people stop demanding that laws must affect the entire…

Oh come on, that's a BS argument in the age of FB and Palantir. Get real instead of ignoring the fact of technology. I have radical ideas about governance but 'shrink the state' is about as sensible as 'force people to be good.'

I'm not sure what FB and Palantir have to do with the size of the state. They're private companies. Yes, it's true that in light of new technology, "the state" or a reasonable facsimile thereof can wield a frightening amount of knowledge about not only your personal life, but the personal lives of all of your associates as well.

However, that's just more reason to aggressively ensure that free markets are functioning well, that state dependence is low, and that the government's functions are kept trim. The Founders left us a great system, but it needs adaptation that keeps its true principles enshrined and safeguarded in light of the unparalleled technological revolution that's occurred over the last +/- 180 years.

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