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FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

theintercept.com

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Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#101

Post by leereeves »

iak8god wrote: post #97
leereeves wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, while I don't want to argue the case of the shooting of Michael Brown here (nor do I have any special knowledge to add to the publicly available facts), you've jumped to conclusions regarding the case ("a state sponsored murder"). The grand jury did not find enough evidence to charge the officer and even CNN said "Some [witnesses] admitted lying. Others changed their stories under questioning." http://www.cnn.…

Hi. I just went off and read In Defense of Looting [1], which I'd never seen before, following its mention in your earlier post. It's fascinating. I think you should read it. It presents a very interesting perspective that many might not be familiar with and, despite the title, is not primarily a defense of looting. Isn't this an interesting idea worth thinking about? "Looting is extremely dangerous to the rich (and…

I've read it a few times.

"It is in solidarity with these latter protesters–along with those who loot–and against politicians and de-escalators everywhere that I offer this critique"

As someone who would like to see de-escalation before this all ends in civil war, the author has declared (correctly, I think) themselves against me.

It is, more than a mere defense of looting, an attack on capitalism and "white supremacy" (by which the author means American society in general, not extremist Neo-Nazis).

I'm as aware as anyone of the failures and injustices of capitalism, but merely taking what one wants isn't a sustainable solution.

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#102

Post by ihsw »

drawkbox wrote: post #28

Protesting peacefully is an American right, this will be a list of real patriots. However, this is a bit scary. Corporations have become the brownshirts and we are inching towards a one-party authoritarian system like China it seems. Unfortunately the divide and conquer strategy of the two party system in the US makes people honor party over country and this is a problem. The only solution is to be more independent.…

Protesting peacefully != destroying private property and committing unprovoked acts of violence to innocents

There's a word for those that use random violence to effect change in society -- terrorists.

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#103

Post by rdtsc »

jMyles wrote: post #21
devoply wrote: post #3

The message here is clear: Don't protest or you might lose your job. I will say it again, despite being down-voted last time, these are chilling effects on activism in the United States. They prevent democracy from happening. This means democracy is broken and needs fixing. Activism is the only way that egregious problems like racism in the United States got fixed, without activism black people would still be under J…

> racism in the United States got fixed Did I miss a memo? There are more black men under state custody or supervision in the United States today for acts that no sensible person regards as criminal (drugs) than were enslaved in 1850.

The modern prison-industrial complex is reshaping of slavery basically. It needs as input people it can control, force them to work for meager pay, extract maximum profits even from families trying to call them. Lobby for War on Drugs to stay in effect to keep the input to the funnel full.

Btw as surprising as it may be to people here, Hillary Clinton was a choice candidate for PIC. They gave her at least $250k in lobbying just last year. Lately she claimed she will refund it, but it was a token gesture so far and she donate about $10k to a women's prison charity. She was also a big proponent of the infamous "three strikes law" is which filled the prisons with various repeat offenders no matter how minor their crimes.

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#104

Post by llukas »

DictumExNihilo wrote: post #98

There is a group who have proposed a solution to this problem for decades: Shrink the state. Until people stop believing that any effort to do so will result in everyone literally dying in the street, the state will grow. Until people's first impulse towards someone doing something they don't like ceases to be "there ought to be a law", the state will grow. Until people stop demanding that laws must affect the entire…

Shrink the state = let rich & corporations get loose.

You want to replace kind of power that you got influence on and some expectations about public information access with totally "private" power that you got no control about.

That is special kind of stupid.

Thank you but no thank you.

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#105

Post by dsfyu404ed »

analogmemory wrote: post #4
devoply wrote: post #3

The message here is clear: Don't protest or you might lose your job. I will say it again, despite being down-voted last time, these are chilling effects on activism in the United States. They prevent democracy from happening. This means democracy is broken and needs fixing. Activism is the only way that egregious problems like racism in the United States got fixed, without activism black people would still be under J…

If I lose my job for protesting or activism then fuck that employer. There should be a database of companies that fire people for their off hours activism.

I don't think you have a family you're providing for.

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#106

Post by ihsw »

devoply wrote: post #3

The message here is clear: Don't protest or you might lose your job. I will say it again, despite being down-voted last time, these are chilling effects on activism in the United States. They prevent democracy from happening. This means democracy is broken and needs fixing. Activism is the only way that egregious problems like racism in the United States got fixed, without activism black people would still be under J…

Random violence is the staple of the terrorist. There's a very large difference between activism and actively destroying businesses and causing grievous bodily harm, both of which the likes of terrorist groups (read: BLM and Antifa) have employed with reckless abandon.

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#107

Post by dsfyu404ed »

tomjakubowski wrote: post #62
mjolk wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're suggesting a left-wing form of McCarthyism. I don't care if my employees/reports protest as long as they do their job and don't attempt political intimidation, but I am not willing to put my company on a list to satisfy a virtue-signaling busybody.

Are you kidding? Promoting the recognition of an employee's first amendment rights now falls under "virtue signaling" and "McCarthyism"?

It's sure a heck not a virtue any company in the defense sector wants to be signaling.

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#108

Post by ihsw »

JohnTHaller wrote: post #12
TenOhms wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of activism are you referring to? The peaceful gatherings with signs and petitions, or the kind with assaults, battery, looting and vandalism on others for speaking their side?

If you get to conflate the handful of anarchists breaking windows and setting fires the night before with the 3m of us who marched peacefully during the Women's March, then we get to conflate all Trump voters with the literal nazis - as in "Sieg Heil", nazi salute, call themselves "nazis" - that voted for him and celebrated his victory. It's only fair. (And, yes, I'm saying that both of these things are a bad idea si…

It's not a handful -- show me a gathering of anti-government protestors and I'll show you a news report the following day of random acts of violence. This is a slippery slope and permitting this to happen without consequence is dangerous.

Domestic terrorism is being normalized by a fifth column.

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#109

Post by snowwrestler »

randywaterhouse wrote: post #59
suprgeek wrote: post #14

Beautiful - Go to protest against Trump (or even to document it [1]) - get arrested and charged with "Rioting", "Disturbing the Peace" or my most favorite "Resisting Arrest[2]" - get an Arrest Record - Get fired immediately thanks to RAP BACK - Charges get dropped. Rinse and repeat. Welcome Absolute Fascism. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/jan/24/journalists-ch... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_con…

We've already lost when an arrest is equivalent to a conviction. Although, in some ways, we've been here for a while. Maybe less-so for individuals but for corporations, whom the law generally treats with a degree of "individual" rights (IANAL), it's long been that an indictment is worse than a conviction. After an indictment, clients turn away -> revenue flees -> shutters. What's scary is an indictment is, in theory…

> We've already lost when an arrest is equivalent to a conviction.

It's not, under the law, of course. But since businesses can (generally) freely choose who to hire or fire, it is legal for them to ask employees about arrests and make decisions based on the answer.

This is different, though, in that the federal government itself (the FBI) is assisting companies in doing this. The FBI is reporting arrests to businesses, in full knowledge of the negative consequences for employees in doing so. Indeed, the negative consequences are the entire point of the program.

The federal government is held to different standards. If an employee could prove that they were fired because of an arrest that never led to a conviction, reported through Rap Back, I think they would have a pretty good test case for the ACLU to go to town on.

The whole point of our system of justice is to ensure that the government only punishes citizens when there is beyond reasonable doubt that an actual crime was committed. Here, the federal government is delivering punishment entirely outside that framework.

The government will argue that they're just supplying information, not punishment, but they don't get to just pretend they have no idea what happens next. Everything the FBI has ever said about this program will be reviewed and will show that the whole point is to fire people.

Re: FBI Is Building a Watchlist That Gives Companies Real Time Updates on Employees

#110

Post by enraged_camel »

DictumExNihilo wrote: post #98

There is a group who have proposed a solution to this problem for decades: Shrink the state. Until people stop believing that any effort to do so will result in everyone literally dying in the street, the state will grow. Until people's first impulse towards someone doing something they don't like ceases to be "there ought to be a law", the state will grow. Until people stop demanding that laws must affect the entire…

>>Shrink the state.

This simply means "get rid of the departments and programs I disagree with, while giving massive amounts of power to rich people and corporations."

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