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During WWII, U.S. Saw Italian-Americans as a Threat to Homeland Security

smithsonianmag.com

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Re: During WWII, U.S. Saw Italian-Americans as a Threat to Homeland Security

#81

Post by krapp »

KirinDave wrote: post #75

I like this article because it reminds us that "whiteness" is not actually a strictly racial identity. There are numerous factors that make someone "white" in America, which makes them acceptable to white nationalists. These purity rules can change over time to represent what's politically expedient. Many young Americans are shocked to learn that Italian and Irish (who are often a baseline of appearance in modern Ame…

>Many young Americans are shocked to learn that Italian and Irish (who are often a baseline of appearance in modern America)were once not only considered not "white", but were demonized even as much as other races that Europe has traditionally looked down on.

This was parodied in the movie Blazing Saddles, set in the American wild west, with a quote that I'd be [edit: apparently not] banned for repeating verbatim.

Re: During WWII, U.S. Saw Italian-Americans as a Threat to Homeland Security

#82

Post by [deleted] »

paulddraper wrote: post #64
URSpider94 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I call complete BS. "The 1909 murder of Elsie Sigel in New York, of which a Chinese person was suspected, was blamed on the Chinese in general and led to physical violence. "The murder of Elsie Sigel immediately grabbed the front pages of newspapers, which portrayed Chinese men as dangerous to "innocent" and "virtuous" young white women. This murder led to a surge in the harassment of Chinese in communities across th…

Well, "complete BS" right back. > portrayed Chinese men as dangerous to "innocent" and "virtuous" young white women Suspecting a group of criminal activity is hardly terrorism; you could have just quoted attitudes towards blacks for a less obscure analogy. > So your allegation that the linkage of Muslims to terrorist extremism is unique is provably untrue. I never said that no other group has ever been linked to terr…

[deleted]

Re: During WWII, U.S. Saw Italian-Americans as a Threat to Homeland Security

#83

Post by knz »

finid wrote: post #68
knz wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm aware that the US/NATO was involved in the Arab Spring. But again, I think the reality was far more complex - Mohamed Bouazizi didn't immolate himself because the CIA/MI6 told him to. There were videos from the time of people marching and being shot by their governments - those governments could have chosen to bring meaningful reform but instead chose violence. Likewise with Assad in Syria - the CIA/MI6 aren't ma…

Since the so-called Arab Spring started in Tunisia, you have to ask yourself why we didn't push for "regime change" in that country. The demonstrations in Syria were not spontaneous. They were engineered. If you have time, read the email exchanges between the US ambassador to Syria and H. Clinton. Regarding Iran and Russia playing "the great game", they're supporting the legitimate govt of that country. Without their…

We probably share the same opinion on why no one has pushed for "regime change" in Tunisia.

Iran is definitely playing geopolitics when they arm Houthis (fighting the internationally recognized government) with anti ship missiles in the Strait of Hormuz. Were they also not arming the Iraqi insurgents/sending military forces over the border during the height of the conflict in Iraq? How about Russia in Ukraine (are the "little green men" freedom fighters or rebels?)? Russia has more than just the support of a government in mind when it supports Syria.

I'm not saying one side is right or wrong - just that none of these actions happen in a vacuum.

Re: During WWII, U.S. Saw Italian-Americans as a Threat to Homeland Security

#84

Post by ideonexus »

JackFr wrote: post #19

> By the 1920s, pseudo-scientists and polemicists in the 1920s popularized the notion that Italians were a separate race from Anglo-Americans. These scientists were 'pseudo' only in retrospect. It literally took a world war to knock eugenicists out of the mainstream. As we pat ourselves on the back today for being so rational and enlightened, we would do well to remember episodes like that and restore some sense of h…

Another dimension to consider in this is to be careful in how we demonize the Anti-Evolution people from this time in history as well. I do believe that William Jennings Bryan of the Scopes Monkey Trial was a very ignorant man in many regards, but the textbook he was protesting was horrifying in for they way it promoted eugenics. I wrote about this here after listening to a presentation from an anthropologist on the subject, who argued that Bryan--a liberal Christian--was strongly motivated by his opposition to eugenics:

http://ideonexus.com/2007/12/02/the-complex-william-jennings...

In lessons learned from history, Jennings made the mistake of attacking the textbook on the validity of evolutionary theory instead of for the abhorrent promotion of eugenics. As a result, history remembers him as a buffoon rallying against a now-obvious scientific truth. I see a parallel today with many Climate Change denialists, who attack the science instead of attacking the policies being put forward using the science for support.

Re: During WWII, U.S. Saw Italian-Americans as a Threat to Homeland Security

#85

Post by knz »

finid wrote: post #68
knz wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm aware that the US/NATO was involved in the Arab Spring. But again, I think the reality was far more complex - Mohamed Bouazizi didn't immolate himself because the CIA/MI6 told him to. There were videos from the time of people marching and being shot by their governments - those governments could have chosen to bring meaningful reform but instead chose violence. Likewise with Assad in Syria - the CIA/MI6 aren't ma…

Since the so-called Arab Spring started in Tunisia, you have to ask yourself why we didn't push for "regime change" in that country. The demonstrations in Syria were not spontaneous. They were engineered. If you have time, read the email exchanges between the US ambassador to Syria and H. Clinton. Regarding Iran and Russia playing "the great game", they're supporting the legitimate govt of that country. Without their…

Just saw your edit with Wikileaks. Thanks for sharing it. It's an interesting read especially in the context of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Orchard.

It's all geopolitics...

Re: During WWII, U.S. Saw Italian-Americans as a Threat to Homeland Security

#86

Post by makomk »

canadian_voter wrote: post #25
dominotw wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Some of them were "detained", put with handcuffed for over 20 hrs. I have travel coming up in two months, this makes me nervous. Do you have a source for this by any chance?

It really depends where you're coming from and where you've been. If your a former Prime Minister of an allied nation, you'll probably only be detained an hour[0]. Otherwise your mileage may vary[1]. Your local authorities can probably give you some guidance on this. [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/02/0... [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/29/nyregion/airports-travele...

Though of course, said former Prime Minister was actually detained under an Obama-era policy that had nothing to do with Trump and everything to do with a law passed in late 2015 that had overwhelming bipartisan support. One which got very little coverage until it could be tied to Trump's actions somehow.

Re: During WWII, U.S. Saw Italian-Americans as a Threat to Homeland Security

#87

Post by fl0wenol »

jackhack wrote: post #59
JackFr wrote: post #19

> By the 1920s, pseudo-scientists and polemicists in the 1920s popularized the notion that Italians were a separate race from Anglo-Americans. These scientists were 'pseudo' only in retrospect. It literally took a world war to knock eugenicists out of the mainstream. As we pat ourselves on the back today for being so rational and enlightened, we would do well to remember episodes like that and restore some sense of h…

Thank you for pointing this out. This was "settled science" of the day and to question it put one against much of the world scientific community. Just as a flat earth and an Earth-centric universe were once completely accepted without question, so was this. And today, in our age of satellites and electronic computers, we have our own misconceptions - areas where nagging little doubts or details that don't quite fit t…

>flat earth

This is "common knowledge about past common knowledge" which was never true, a somewhat ironic detail given your larger point.

It was common knowledge the earth was round since antiquity (as long as we've had sailors).

Re: During WWII, U.S. Saw Italian-Americans as a Threat to Homeland Security

#88

Post by [deleted] »

paulddraper wrote: post #72
beat wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go back to the 1970s, and you'll see similar numbers by the Irish.

Okay... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in... https://en.wikipedia.org/wik…

[deleted]

Re: During WWII, U.S. Saw Italian-Americans as a Threat to Homeland Security

#89

Post by finid »

knz wrote: post #85
finid wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since the so-called Arab Spring started in Tunisia, you have to ask yourself why we didn't push for "regime change" in that country. The demonstrations in Syria were not spontaneous. They were engineered. If you have time, read the email exchanges between the US ambassador to Syria and H. Clinton. Regarding Iran and Russia playing "the great game", they're supporting the legitimate govt of that country. Without their…

Just saw your edit with Wikileaks. Thanks for sharing it. It's an interesting read especially in the context of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Orchard . It's all geopolitics...

This one is even better. It's all the way from 2006, long before the so-called Arab Spring started.

http://wikileaks.cabledrum.net/cable/2006/12/06DAMASCUS5399....

Re: During WWII, U.S. Saw Italian-Americans as a Threat to Homeland Security

#90

Post by finid »

knz wrote: post #83
finid wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since the so-called Arab Spring started in Tunisia, you have to ask yourself why we didn't push for "regime change" in that country. The demonstrations in Syria were not spontaneous. They were engineered. If you have time, read the email exchanges between the US ambassador to Syria and H. Clinton. Regarding Iran and Russia playing "the great game", they're supporting the legitimate govt of that country. Without their…

We probably share the same opinion on why no one has pushed for "regime change" in Tunisia. Iran is definitely playing geopolitics when they arm Houthis (fighting the internationally recognized government) with anti ship missiles in the Strait of Hormuz. Were they also not arming the Iraqi insurgents/sending military forces over the border during the height of the conflict in Iraq? How about Russia in Ukraine (are th…

I'm not saying one side is right or wrong - just that none of these actions happen in a vacuum.

And you're correct, because they don't.

My original point in all of this is that we're creating a refugees crisis, but refusing to take them in. That, in my opinion, is just evil.

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