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Computer Science Education

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Re: Computer Science Education

#181

Post by mbarq »

NotSammyHagar wrote: post #113
defnfoo wrote: post #106

Meanwhile, google discriminates against older people ("old" being pretty much anyone in their late 30s). They are so inclusive, and so diverse... as long as they get to decide what diversity and inclusivity are. http://www.businessinsider.com/google-loses-ruling-in-age-bi...

I was past 40 when I was hired at Google, worked there for almost 10 years, knew many other older devs. I disagree that they were discriminatory. At least in my experience, that was not an issue.

They were older, but were they hired as "older", straight out of school or a career change? I feel like if they were older, they were probably senior programmers at other companies and just moved to google for the money/glory.

Re: Computer Science Education

#182

Post by whyileft »

NotSammyHagar wrote: post #133
defnfoo wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The experience of those filing the law suit differs from yours. You may have known some older devs, but the numbers are very clear: the average age of a google employee is 29. The US national average is 42. Google itself is not very diverse by most metrics. Maybe they should practice what they preach? http://time.com/4391031/google-diversity-statistics-2016/

That article is mostly about female to male ratios. Certainly we need more women programmers, but there aren't enough to hire. Every company I've ever worked at wanted more women, but there aren't enough graduates. At google, one way they were able to hire women devs was to pay for women were were stem students to go to the grace murray hopper conference who were cs students and then interview them and hire them on t…

Everywhere I've been begs for female applicants. I feel like the low numbers of women trying to get into tech is a fantastic example of how market forces do not solve everything. There is an enormous gap between the supply of female applicants and the demand for them with little change in sight. To any women reading this comment. Places are desperate to hire you so do not be afraid to apply at places where you feel you may be a little under qualified.

Re: Computer Science Education

#184

Post by e40 »

NotSammyHagar wrote: post #113
defnfoo wrote: post #106

Meanwhile, google discriminates against older people ("old" being pretty much anyone in their late 30s). They are so inclusive, and so diverse... as long as they get to decide what diversity and inclusivity are. http://www.businessinsider.com/google-loses-ruling-in-age-bi...

I was past 40 when I was hired at Google, worked there for almost 10 years, knew many other older devs. I disagree that they were discriminatory. At least in my experience, that was not an issue.

It almost certainly varies from manager to manager. I cannot imagine that Google has a company-wide practice of discrimination.

Re: Computer Science Education

#185

Post by protomyth »

mbarq wrote: post #179
defnfoo wrote: post #106

Meanwhile, google discriminates against older people ("old" being pretty much anyone in their late 30s). They are so inclusive, and so diverse... as long as they get to decide what diversity and inclusivity are. http://www.businessinsider.com/google-loses-ruling-in-age-bi...

This. I got a BFA straight out of high school on a full-ride. Thought things were gonna work out great for me in the movies, but life happens. I then went back to school as an "older student" at 25 and holy cow is it hard! Most Unis don't want you (literally), getting any kind of scholarship beyond a loan is out of the question, most of these "opportunities" are usually offered for people in high school or just start…

You basically have to pick a school that has an older-than-average program. This is actually a problem in the Native American community because many students enter college later in life. It is not uncommon for students to start at 30 after a stint in the military or just working for some years after high school. Often they also have a family for added difficulty.

Tribal community colleges and some of the regional universities are aware of this lifecycle and make adjustments. UND at one point had a program that was "basic training" for college with a structured set of classes that were general requirements and support around them.

I commend you for putting in the effort, but our colleges are not helpful to older students and that actually makes life difficult for certain minority groups. I find their lack of inclusion a bit hypocritical.

Re: Computer Science Education

#186

Post by randomdata »

Anm wrote: post #177
randomdata wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the importance of a CS education? I honestly don't feel like my exposure to CS has changed my life in any way outside of my career. If I imagine some future where I am retired, it is not obvious to me where I will use anything I have learned or how it will shape me into being a better person. It certainly has been useful to me in finding gainful employment, but if that is the only thing it brings to the table…

"...outside of my career" Ummm... isn't that a pretty major effect? Doesn't that have some impressive side effects? I watch my so many of my non-CS friends cycle through jobs (and debt) with limited ability to add long-term stability. If information sciences are having an impact on every industry, and encouraging students to explore those options gives them better access to jobs, and thus improve their life, that see…

My career has been significant in my life. I was fortunate enough to take an interest in CS before we started pushing it on every man, woman, and child. Since there have been few of us with the necessary skills up to this point, job stability and compensation has been fairly great, relatively speaking.

But success is rarely duplicated! The cure for high prices, after all, is high prices. With the push for more and more to get into CS, there will undoubtedly be more and more looking for careers in CS-based professions in the future. The added competition will leave these jobs in the same state that your friends have found themselves dealing with in mature careers who have already gone through the same dilution of people. If I'm wrong and these people do not pursue careers that are related to CS, what have they really gained?

To put simply: Value lies in scarcity. If CS is no longer scarce, it will no longer be valuable.

Re: Computer Science Education

#187

Post by ng12 »

duderific wrote: post #180

> Computers are everywhere in our world today and being an educated citizen requires an understanding of the fundamentals of computer science and its underlying problem-solving methodology of computational thinking. I know this is just some copywriter writing this, but this seems the height of Silicon Valley bubble thinking. Plenty of people do just fine in their lives barely interacting with computers at all. Sure,…

It's exactly like knowing how to diagnose and fix issues with your car. Is it helpful to know at least a little bit? Absolutely. Is it a necessity? Not by a long shot.

Re: Computer Science Education

#188

Post by protomyth »

m0nty wrote: post #24
Spare_account wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the linked page there is a section titled "Learn Computer Science" which contains a section titled "Student Learning" which contains a variety of learning resources that can be experienced through the browser. https://www.google.com/edu/cs/learn/student.html

Looks great if you're Indian, Irish or female. Edit: Or AU/NZ, missed that one.

Apparently if your racial group is listed in the "Other" category of Google's diversity report they won't throw you a life line on education. You know, after they made sure Google Voice wouldn't service one of the tribal community colleges, they could at least do a little outreach.

Re: Computer Science Education

#189

Post by a_j_c »

pliptvo wrote: post #37
dotancohen wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see why this rather insightful post is downvoted. The site specifically targets these groups by name. Why in the age of a _World_ Wide Web and "post-discrimination" are large companies such as Google deliberately targeting specific groups? What will be in the girls-only code program that might be inappropriate for boys?

Presumably Google is targeting India, Ireland, NZ and Australia because they have significant bases in those countries. In regards to targeting young women, they're making an effort to redress the obvious gender imbalances and male dominance of the tech world. Why is that a problem?

> "In regards to targeting young women, they're making an effort to redress the obvious gender imbalances and male dominance of the tech world."

It could be that they are just virtue signaling and trying to appease the easily offended bloggers and tech "journalists"

Re: Computer Science Education

#190

Post by a_j_c »

reitanqild wrote: post #124
pliptvo wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak for your particular experience at school, but in general I think it's a shame that people whose lives are, as you say, "privileged" by the systems in which we live feel like they are at a disadvantage because of concerted attempts to raise others to their level.

You know, I was a lot younger then. Furthermore I was answering a direct question: "What is the problem?" Also I put the "privileged" word in quotes for a reason: while being male gives me a number of advantages it also gives me a number of disadvantages. Furthermore there is all the rest: coming from a low socioeconomic background should account for a lot as well (buying a pc was a huge deal - I think I was 15 when…

+1

Class > Identity politics

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