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How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

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Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#151

Post by msabalau »

devmunchies wrote: post #92
cortuso wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's $130K, which is 2x as much as before. It's senior level salary in IT (and I think for lawyers and MD's it's not starting salary either), in some cases/states Principal level. I would not invite H1B on that position, I would get one from local market for that amount of money. If you follow the line: it simply says do not use H1B more. Plus, what international student will do once he completes the college,…

> There is no a notion of "nation" in USA, there is no such thing Yeah ok, buddy. Try that line when you don't wanna pay taxes.

The term "nation" typically means a collection of people with a common culture and ethnicity. The "Poles" are a nation, Poland is a state. That's why the the term nation-state exists, and contrasts with, say, empires composed of multiple nations. Canada, for example, traditionally described as a binational state, is now typically identified as a multicultural state, with some Québécois disliking the change in emphasis.

Americans as a people are united in sloppily mishandling the term "nation", mostly because it doesn't really apply to us.

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#152

Post by refurb »

cortuso wrote: post #50
hungrygs wrote: post #28

The general direction of the Trump plan regarding H-1b is the way to go. The lottery needs to be replaced with a demand system where the highest salaries get slots. A floor of $100,000/yr should exist and adjust for inflation. Next, generously expand the green card fast track, as this category of employee, as an immigrant, is a free agent to move among companies or to start their own business. To date, as we all know…

I think it's $130K, which is 2x as much as before. It's senior level salary in IT (and I think for lawyers and MD's it's not starting salary either), in some cases/states Principal level. I would not invite H1B on that position, I would get one from local market for that amount of money. If you follow the line: it simply says do not use H1B more. Plus, what international student will do once he completes the college,…

I think it's $130K, which is 2x as much as before.

I think you need to get out of the Valley. It's come up on HN before how $125K+ salaries might be common in SV, but not in other areas of the US.

Make the salary floor $130K and only SV will get to hire H1-Bs.

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#153

Post by johncolanduoni »

Retric wrote: post #139
542458 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want to hire, say, an interpreter of a specific foreign language to work on a community in rural Alabama temporarily, a $100,000 minimum wage would be absurd. Wow, that's a really important point. I'm so in the tech-news bubble that I'd never heard anybody say that before - thanks for pointing that out!

I disagree. If you are not willing to pay 100k then finding someone is not the problem. You just don't want to pay market rates. The point of H-1B is when salary is not the problem. PS: Remember, someone on an H-1B can leave your employment. Paying market rates is supposed to keep that from happening, thus the intent is to remove a shortage not lower pay.

What is the market rate of a translator for an uncommon language in Alabama? Where are you getting your data that suggests $100k is not dramatically above market rates for any job where there is a lack of domestic talent and a surplus of foreign talent?

Median personal income in the US is $30k, so I don't think it's fair to assume every job is like tech and has market rates in anywhere near the same place.

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#154

Post by budu3 »

jacquesm wrote: post #3
tomp wrote: post #2

Immigration has been uncertain for a long time. YCombinator founders have been working on their startups on 3-month visitor visas. Top graduate students can stay in the US for a year, then they need to enter a lottery to be allowed to stay for another few years. Trump changes barely anything. Unpaywalled: http://archive.is/BHfyN

Trump changes plenty, in the past it was assumed that the USA would honor visa once they were issued, now it turns out not to be the case. Essentially this is breach of contract.

> in the past it was assumed that the USA would honor visa once they were issued Not true. Having a visa was never a guarantee of entry into the US. Entry was always at the discretion of the border agent at the port of entry [1]. [1] https://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/general/frequently...

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#155

Post by eli_gottlieb »

conanbatt wrote: post #65
dublinben wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as there is a cap on these visas, they should be distributed in the most efficient manner, i.e. through an auction. Anything else is wasteful.

The question would be why have a cap at all.

Because no country has a cap-less work-visa program for American workers.

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#156

Post by mavelikara »

sharemywin wrote: post #129
edge17 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2017-H1B-Visa-Category.asp...

sounds like each job class needs it's own minimum.

Which is what the current rule - the one based on prevailing wages - tries to address. Minor tweaks to it - for e.g. using the mean of the top 1/3rd of the salaries surveyed - will accomplish what you ask for, IMO.

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#157

Post by yummyfajitas »

jacquesm wrote: post #101
yummyfajitas wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not a breach of contract. A visa is not a guarantee of entry even though many people assume it is. [Edit: Please don't interpret my comment as suggesting I think this is a good idea. If you check my posting history, you'll discover I'm an outspoken proponent of open borders.]

I've yet to hear of a country structurally not honoring visa once they were issued. I've traveled pretty much where-ever I could go and once a visa was obtained it was never recalled. Now, I'm a 'well behaved white guy' (or so you might think) from a 'good' country (never mind the slavery, the rape, the pillage, the piracy, exploitation and murder) so that probably skews the odds of this not happening decidedly in my…

I agree that this is a really dumb idea. I oppose it completely. I'm just disagreeing with the very specific "breach of contract" claim.

I have heard of the US refusing entry to people with visas. I know someone this happened to, in fact. But since Trump (or other similar villain) wasn't the president at the time, no one really cared.

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#158

Post by raincom »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #83
sidlls wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would that be absurd? A highly specialized skill in an area that we can infer is generally less desirable to live should command a higher than average wage. Much higher if the situation is so desperate that a foreign worker has to be sought. Also: the majority (by far) of H1-B visas are for technology work. It may not technically be "tech only" but in practice it may as well be.

I think one of the Dem senators had proposed a plan that had the floor relative to the location and the job, so in this case you'd have to offer 150-200% of what an Ethiopian translator in Alabama would recieve, before you'd be allowed to hire someone via a Visa. That general principal seems reasonable to me, and less Silicon Valley centric than just a flat floor at whatever they think is reasonable for a software de…

Floor relative to the location and the job--is very easy to abuse. You can abuse both location and job via indirection: indirection through layers of contracting companies. Similar strategy is used now to abuse: Some Mega corp contacts out to TCS, which further contracts out to some mom and pop consulting co, and so on.

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#159

Post by eli_gottlieb »

jacquesm wrote: post #91
anton_tarasenko wrote: post #76

The tone of tech companies does not resonate with the electorate. The Bay Area basically says to America: We have foreigners here who founded some companies and got rich, so we don't want your visa restrictions. How do tech executives motivate the average American to support this stance? Taxes? IT companies and their owners enjoy a very friendly tax treatment. Jobs? The largest IT companies employ only 20-60k people…

It may not be the desired tone but essentially that's how America got populated in the first place, a place where foreigners with some disadvantage in their country of origin could get rich. And many did. Kicking the door behind you closed once you've got yours or because you're afraid new immigrants will take your job is hypocrisy of a terrible kind for a nation that was founded on immigration.

>Kicking the door behind you closed once you've got yours or because you're afraid new immigrants will take your job is hypocrisy of a terrible kind for a nation that was founded on immigration.

What about immigration from Kansas to California? We all know these tech companies prefer to hire from Stanford, MIT, and each-other. Why not just hire the proverbial kid from Brooklyn if we're so concerned about migration and diversity?

Re: How Immigration Uncertainty Threatens America’s Tech Dominance

#160

Post by joe563323 »

devmunchies wrote: post #134
joe563323 wrote: post #68

High time for fully remote companies.

Is there a single company in the fortune 500 that is fully remote?

Don't know if wordpress is fortune 500 company. But it is 15th most visited website in the world in 2013 https://hbr.org/2013/03/how-wordpress-thrives-with-a-1.html
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