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Fake News Challenge

fakenewschallenge.org

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Re: Fake News Challenge

#221

Post by jakeogh »

jacquesm wrote: post #117
ng12 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not clear to me which is more of a problem. With obviously fake news you can at least use well-researched facts to argue against it. When CNN keeps pushing the narrative (i.e. relentlessly talking about Hillary "winning" the debates when in hindsight she obviously didn't) it's a much more subversive, subtle kind of fake.

CNN winning is merely them echoing the majority sentiment of the polls, maybe with a dash of hope thrown in. Ironically this may have done Clinton in with people thinking well, if she's won already then I don't need to go and vote. Hindsight is always 20/20, it is very easy to see Clinton winning as a 'narrative' pushed with an agenda whereas based on the data available to them that simply made good sense. See also:…

A dash? From CNN all the way to FOX it was 23x7 schilling for the global government faction. Usually it's not so difficult because both candidates are in it. Trump ruined that technique and two parasitic political dynasties with it. Polls of AZ with a ~+15% Dem sample (when R turnout and D crossover was already off the charts) were used to run stories about how Clinton could win AZ... and TX! Attributing it to incompetence ignores the other obvious and well tested reason.

http://i.imgur.com/VUdcIou.jpg

Re: Fake News Challenge

#222

Post by lend000 »

Retra wrote: post #195
lend000 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem is people are treating the news like a product in the capitalist paradigm. News is a product, but it should be noted that fraud is a crime in a free market. Not that it discounts the rest of what you're saying.

That doesn't really work very well. News as a product means you give the customers what they ask for, not what they need. If they ask for lies, it's not fraud. However, news as a public service has standards of liability to the public in general, not just to your own customers. It is an obligation to society, not to the buyer.

Most consumers don't sign an agreement to receive fake news that fits their beliefs when they purchase cable -- if that was the case, then it would be fine (it can also be fraud to have something hidden in the fine print, although it usually requires a class action).

Re: Fake News Challenge

#223

Post by imron »

intended wrote: post #219
imron wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, so if I compile a dossier of unverified stories regarding Hillary, and package them up then it suddenly makes otherwise fake claims not fake news? I mean that's the whole sub-prime mortgage problem all over again. Take a shitty product and wrap it in layers of respectability until people don't know any better. When there is also evidence to suggest much of the contents of the dossier came from a 4-chan prank, it'…

I think you need to clarify 2 concepts/definitions, agnostic of real world events. 1) fake news: a recent phenomenon where fraudulent/fictional/completely made up literature is peddled as legitimate news. This is then distributed on steroids via social media. It uses unsuspecting people to transmit this. Bias in news. This is an older problem and involves how news is presented and what spin is put. In the worst case…

I don't think 'bias in news' begins to cover the sort of things that went on in the recent US election though.

There was a lot of anti-Trump news that basically matches what you said above:

> "fake news" will evolve, it will add parts of the truth to it dodge this 0th level definition

* Trump kicked a mother and baby out of rally

* Trump mocked a reporter's disability

* Trump proposed building database of muslims

And the list goes on.

This goes well beyond the realm of media bias, and in to direct collusion between media and the campaign.

I have no problem calling that 'fake news', which is perhaps a descriptive approach rather than a prescriptive one.

Re: Fake News Challenge

#224

Post by uppercasenut »

cmdrfred wrote: post #116
uppercasenut wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the left believes Trump just signed an order that banned Muslims" He did ban Muslims, just not all of them (yet.) And he did talk about banning all Muslims on the campaign. Now the Kenyan thing requires to believe that a lot of people and countries are on it, and have been decades before Obama was anyone of note.

>He did ban Muslims, just not all of them (yet.) When Obama bombed those very same countries was he bombing Muslims? Isn't that genocide?

He did bomb Muslims BUT not because they were Muslims. Get the difference? Trump has said many times he wants to ban Muslims from the USA, even that Muslim with a MIT PHD.

Only on Google cache since he removed it:

"December 07, 2015 - ​Donald J. Trump Statement on Preventing Muslim Immigration

(New York, NY) December 7th, 2015, -- Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on. According to Pew Research, among others, there is great hatred towards Americans by large segments of the Muslim population. Most recently, a poll from the Center for Security Policy released data showing "25% of those polled agreed that violence against Americans here in the United States is justified as a part of the global jihad" and 51% of those polled, "agreed that Muslims in America should have the choice of being governed according to Shariah." Shariah authorizes such atrocities as murder against non-believers who won't convert, beheadings and more unthinkable acts that pose great harm to Americans, especially women.

Mr. Trump stated, "Without looking at the various polling data, it is obvious to anybody the hatred is beyond comprehension. Where this hatred comes from and why we will have to determine. Until we are able to determine and understand this problem and the dangerous threat it poses, our country cannot be the victims of horrendous attacks by people that believe only in Jihad, and have no sense of reason or respect for human life. If I win the election for President, we are going to Make America Great Again." - Donald J. Trump"

Re: Fake News Challenge

#225

Post by intended »

imron wrote: post #223
intended wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you need to clarify 2 concepts/definitions, agnostic of real world events. 1) fake news: a recent phenomenon where fraudulent/fictional/completely made up literature is peddled as legitimate news. This is then distributed on steroids via social media. It uses unsuspecting people to transmit this. Bias in news. This is an older problem and involves how news is presented and what spin is put. In the worst case…

I don't think 'bias in news' begins to cover the sort of things that went on in the recent US election though. There was a lot of anti-Trump news that basically matches what you said above: > "fake news" will evolve, it will add parts of the truth to it dodge this 0th level definition * Trump kicked a mother and baby out of rally * Trump mocked a reporter's disability * Trump proposed building database of muslims And…

Hey - trump alone was a candidate unlike any other - and entering the stage after years of escalation in rhetoric.

On top of that trump himself courted controversy at a rate and scale never seen before.

That's why this election was faced with drama unlike elections before them.

A lot of stuff listed above is sadly the regular calumny inflicted upon candidates. Iirc someone got kicked out of the race because of a bad photo op.

But These are all things that are problematic- without being fake news.

Re: Fake News Challenge

#226

Post by grzm »

uppercasenut wrote: post #224
cmdrfred wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>He did ban Muslims, just not all of them (yet.) When Obama bombed those very same countries was he bombing Muslims? Isn't that genocide?

He did bomb Muslims BUT not because they were Muslims. Get the difference? Trump has said many times he wants to ban Muslims from the USA, even that Muslim with a MIT PHD. Only on Google cache since he removed it: "December 07, 2015 - ​Donald J. Trump Statement on Preventing Muslim Immigration (New York, NY) December 7th, 2015, -- Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the Un…

Only on Google cache since he removed it:

"December 07, 2015 - ​Donald J. Trump Statement on Preventing Muslim Immigration (New York, NY) December 7th, 2015, -- Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on. According to Pew Research, among others, there is great hatred towards Americans by large segments of the Muslim population."

It may be gone from the location you were looking at, as happens with all kinds of stuff on the web. I believe this is the same document, available from the DJT campaign site.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/donald-j.-trump-...

Re: Fake News Challenge

#227

Post by dragonwriter »

general_ai wrote: post #189
dragonwriter wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Same with racism: he wasn't in any way called "racist" by anybody until he ran for president, Trump was first sued by the government for racial discrimination something like 40 years ago; he's been being called a racist for a long time before he ran for President. Of course, a lot more people paid attention to him and talked about him at all, and a lot more people paid attention to what was said about him, once he…

Not "Trump", but "one of Trump's companies". There's a difference. Trump would only be really at fault here if he was the author of the discriminatory policies in question, and there's no evidence that he was. Moreover, he testified under oath that he wasn't.

Whether he was at fault or not isn't the issue I was addressing, people were calling him a racist in connection with that, and in connection with many other things in the time between then and his run for President.

Obviously, the national attention on people doing so was less before he ran for President, but the idea that he only was accused of racism due to his Presidential run is false.

Re: Fake News Challenge

#228

Post by cmdrfred »

uppercasenut wrote: post #224
cmdrfred wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>He did ban Muslims, just not all of them (yet.) When Obama bombed those very same countries was he bombing Muslims? Isn't that genocide?

He did bomb Muslims BUT not because they were Muslims. Get the difference? Trump has said many times he wants to ban Muslims from the USA, even that Muslim with a MIT PHD. Only on Google cache since he removed it: "December 07, 2015 - ​Donald J. Trump Statement on Preventing Muslim Immigration (New York, NY) December 7th, 2015, -- Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the Un…

It seems you care more about intent than outcome. I'm more pragmatic and concerned about what someone does not why they did it.

The reason I don't believe the "concern" coming from Democrats is if they actually cared about the Syrian people they would have been protesting in capitol hill while Obama was dropping bombs on their villages and hospitals. I was there, the Quakers were there, even some Republicans were there. Sadly the Democrats were not to be found in any significant number any of the dozen or so times I visted.

Re: Fake News Challenge

#229

Post by untog »

imron wrote: post #216
untog wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That depends on whether you consider the word of an anonymous 4channer to be as reliable as that of a former intelligence officer. Personally, I do not.

It's not so much the word, as the time-stamped posts from months before the news was published.

Any links? Last I checked those were pretty thoroughly debunked.

http://gizmodo.com/4chan-idiots-claim-they-invented-the-trum...

Re: Fake News Challenge

#230

Post by coolgeek »

imron wrote: post #223
intended wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you need to clarify 2 concepts/definitions, agnostic of real world events. 1) fake news: a recent phenomenon where fraudulent/fictional/completely made up literature is peddled as legitimate news. This is then distributed on steroids via social media. It uses unsuspecting people to transmit this. Bias in news. This is an older problem and involves how news is presented and what spin is put. In the worst case…

I don't think 'bias in news' begins to cover the sort of things that went on in the recent US election though. There was a lot of anti-Trump news that basically matches what you said above: > "fake news" will evolve, it will add parts of the truth to it dodge this 0th level definition * Trump kicked a mother and baby out of rally * Trump mocked a reporter's disability * Trump proposed building database of muslims And…

> * Trump kicked a mother and baby out of rally

> * Trump mocked a reporter's disability

Do you deny that these things happened?

Has any other candidate - of any party - ever done anything like this?

Is the media supposed to pretend that it didn't happen?

This is where the "the facts have a well known liberal bias" joke comes from

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