Billionaire Is Reported Seized from Hong Kong Hotel and Taken into China • Hacker News Board

Re: Billionaire Is Reported Seized from Hong Kong Hotel and Taken into China

#131

Post by paulddraper » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 10:44 PM UTC

rrauenza wrote: post #122

jrockway wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "One person, one vote" So how come Trump's President? (It's because "one person" gets "one vote" for an elector. But some people get more electors than others, and electors vote for the President, not individual voters.)

We should keep in mind as well that the campaigns play the game they are given -- to maximize electoral votes. There is an opportunity cost (the popular vote) to only campaigning in the swing states. For example, a large number of Hillary's popular vote was claimed in California. Trump didn't campaign much in California. One could argue if Trump spent more time in California (which he strategically did not ), Hillary…

Not only that, but no candidate got a majority of the popular vote in 2016. If you wanted to elect by majority vote (as is currently done with the electoral college), we'd have to do a run-off to determine the actual popular vote winner.

Re: Billionaire Is Reported Seized from Hong Kong Hotel and Taken into China

#132

Post by seanmcdirmid » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 10:58 PM UTC

jwtadvice wrote: post #39

This appears to be an aspect of the anti-corruption drive that has been holding billionaires and politically connected people high up in the Chinese government to account of the law, with Xiao Jianhua caught in financial fraud. The controversy here isn't that China took Xiao Jianhua in to face the law, but that he was taken from Hong Kong, where an agreement with Britain gives its former colony de facto autonomy with…

As with the bookstore employees, there won't be a thorough investigation and the "truth" will always be in doubt because that is how China likes it. Instead, we have to rely on rumors and such, again, because China.

It is pretty obvious what happened, and again, HK has been going in this direction now for a couple of years.

Re: Billionaire Is Reported Seized from Hong Kong Hotel and Taken into China

#133

Post by sanswork » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 11:04 PM UTC

vecinu wrote: post #128

sanswork wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The billionaires increase the housing supply(see Cityplace) or are buying such high end properties that the worst they do is make life a bit more expensive in the Bridle Path.

I don't think this is correct and the other person who responded to you seems to have the right idea. Look at San Francisco, my friends and coworkers are renting/buying crappy 1943-built, non-renovated 1br units that cost $3k to rent or $700k to buy. They could afford to throw out some more money for something slightly better but it's already a lot of money and pricing everyone out.

Right and in San Francisco there is a ton of people making around the same amount as your friends likely which means there is a lot of competition in their demographic.

Now look at the houses priced $10-20m. If you can afford one of those are you going to start buying up the $1m stock because you can't find the one you want or are you going to build the one you want elsewhere?

Re: Billionaire Is Reported Seized from Hong Kong Hotel and Taken into China

#134

Post by adventured » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 11:12 PM UTC

tacostakohashi wrote: post #96

zkirill wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a Canadian citizen who lives in British Columbia and is not Chinese or of Chinese descent. The fact that a Canadian citizen was "seized" is very concerning to me and I hope that our government gets on top of this swiftly. I also don't see any facts on which you can base your corruption claim.

You think that Canadians should essentially be immune from local enforcement while outside of Canada?

The parent comment implied no such thing, you invented that. Rather, they said it's concerning (which makes perfect sense), and that they hope the Canadian Govt gets on top of it swiftly (also makes perfect sense, the Canadian Govt should get involved asap, given it's one of their citizens).

Re: Billionaire Is Reported Seized from Hong Kong Hotel and Taken into China

#135

Post by 77ko » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 11:23 PM UTC

xiaoma wrote: post #62

pdog wrote: post #10

How will Trudeau respond? Xiao Jianhua is a Canadian citizen, after all.

Given the cold shoulder he's given Taiwan's president, who is also the first female leader democratically elected in Asia, and how he barely responded to Wang Yi's belligerent behavior in Canada, I'd say Trudeau will do nothing. When it comes to might vs right, Canada generally sides with might. To be honest, other than the US, the only country I can even imagine standing up to China for the well-being of a 3rd party…

> who is also the first female leader democratically elected in Asia

There have been plenty of other female leaders elected in Asia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_elected_or_appointed_f...

Re: Billionaire Is Reported Seized from Hong Kong Hotel and Taken into China

#136

Post by FabHK » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 11:26 PM UTC

mwfunk wrote: post #107

FabHK wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And from the perspective of legislative, judicial, and executive powers (incl. police work), it isn't.

Isn't that the difference between sovereignty and self-governance? HK is self-governing in a lot of ways, but it's not a sovereign state, so it exists at the mercy of China. I don't know to what degree HK's independence is guaranteed by international treaties vs. agreements that are purely internal to China. If there's no international agreement with entities outside of China to honor HK's independence, surely the Ch…

IANAL, and it's complicated - there was the UK-China "handover" treaty that guarantees the 50 yrs of autonomy, starting from the 1997 handover.

But note that I'm not disagreeing with the original poster or you: it might well not be sovereign. My point was that having mainland police acting on HK soil is problematic, as it stands, no matter what the status with respect to sovereignty is.

Re: Billionaire Is Reported Seized from Hong Kong Hotel and Taken into China

#137

Post by DefaultUserHN » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 11:34 PM UTC

downandout wrote: post #118

true_religion wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hong Kong is not a country. It is an autonomous territory. It has only a little higher legal status than someplace like Guam or Puerto Rico, and that tiny bit is only there because of the sufferance of the higher government. Hong Kong does not have an army (even US states have their own militias). It does not defend its own borders. It does not negotiate its own diplomatic affairs. However, HK is still subservient to…

Territory or country, according to the articles, Chinese police shouldn't have been there, yet they were. That's a problem.

>...yet they were. That's a problem.

Yep, it's a problem, but what's Hong Kong gonna do? Hong Kong has no army. So what can it do?

China will just do as China pleases, because China have the military forces to back up it back.

Re: Billionaire Is Reported Seized from Hong Kong Hotel and Taken into China

#138

Post by Mikeb85 » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 11:47 PM UTC

sparky_z wrote: post #50

jwtadvice wrote: post #39

This appears to be an aspect of the anti-corruption drive that has been holding billionaires and politically connected people high up in the Chinese government to account of the law, with Xiao Jianhua caught in financial fraud. The controversy here isn't that China took Xiao Jianhua in to face the law, but that he was taken from Hong Kong, where an agreement with Britain gives its former colony de facto autonomy with…

It's not clear to me whether the anti-corruption drive arises out of a genuine antipathy towards corruption or as a means for Xi Jinping to consolidate personal power. This is especially hard because it seems likely that every Chinese bigwig is at least somewhat corrupt, and high-level Chinese power politics is opaque enough that it's not clear if only Xi's rivals are being targeted. I really don't know how to unpick…

And this is the exact same argument that is made by oligarchs everywhere... Oligarchs pillage their own countries and people, then when it goes south they escape to the west, claiming they're political refugees, and perpetuate the cycle of corruption.

Re: Billionaire Is Reported Seized from Hong Kong Hotel and Taken into China

#139

Post by LiweiZ » Wed, Feb 01, 2017, 12:12 AM UTC

sparky_z wrote: post #50

jwtadvice wrote: post #39

This appears to be an aspect of the anti-corruption drive that has been holding billionaires and politically connected people high up in the Chinese government to account of the law, with Xiao Jianhua caught in financial fraud. The controversy here isn't that China took Xiao Jianhua in to face the law, but that he was taken from Hong Kong, where an agreement with Britain gives its former colony de facto autonomy with…

It's not clear to me whether the anti-corruption drive arises out of a genuine antipathy towards corruption or as a means for Xi Jinping to consolidate personal power. This is especially hard because it seems likely that every Chinese bigwig is at least somewhat corrupt, and high-level Chinese power politics is opaque enough that it's not clear if only Xi's rivals are being targeted. I really don't know how to unpick…

You know China very well. There is no genuine antipathy towards corruption in Chinese ruling group. However, there is genuine antipathy towards corruption benefiting opponents in Chinese ruling group.

Re: Billionaire Is Reported Seized from Hong Kong Hotel and Taken into China

#140

Post by contingencies » Wed, Feb 01, 2017, 12:18 AM UTC

adventured wrote: post #134

tacostakohashi wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think that Canadians should essentially be immune from local enforcement while outside of Canada?

The parent comment implied no such thing, you invented that. Rather, they said it's concerning (which makes perfect sense), and that they hope the Canadian Govt gets on top of it swiftly (also makes perfect sense, the Canadian Govt should get involved asap, given it's one of their citizens).

To the Chinese government he is Chinese, period. This is their public stated policy. To be considered a foreigner you have to be born outside of China to non-Chinese parents and only hold foreign citizenship. This is the only case in which the Chinese government allows foreign consulates to become involved.