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Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

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Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#201

Post by antivw »

matt4077 wrote: post #102
kartan wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a listed company you would be taking away many peoples jobs and savings who are innocent parties in this. 1. Nationalize part of the company hurting investors. 2. Auction the shares to the market 3. Profit$ This way a "too big to fail" company can continue running its business as usual while punishing the value of the company. That doesn't means that personal responsibilities are forgiven, any one that breaks th…

That is fundamentally not different from a fine, which is ultimately also paid completely by the investors.

It is fundamentally different, because it targets equity, not operating capital.

Fines can be mitigated by raising prices so that equity-holders shift pain to consumers. Stripping equity on the other hand means that you change who profits from sales.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#202

Post by antivw »

ams6110 wrote: post #16
gonzo41 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the logical conclusion when you allow corporations to be 'people' without the consequences of being a person. How do you send a company to jail? Its kinda of like that scene in fightclub where Edward Nortons character talks about the cost of doing a recall. The emissions scandal should have ended VW. Solution: Guillotine for corporate crime.

Many people look at emissions testing as an annoyance and I doubt that outside of environmental circles that very many people cared. And it was diesel car emissions -- a niche of the US market that's almost invisible anyway.

Fair enough. 590K diesel vehicles is a niche of the US market that's almost invisible.

So have VW purchase back every one of those cars at MSRP. It's an invisible amount anyway, right? The largest auto maker in the world could do it without blinking, right?

Then fine them a few $billion for damage to the environment, jail a handful of employees, and we can move on.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#203

Post by wyager »

patrickk wrote: post #177
mulmen wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am disappointed in Toyota's current offerings. Take a look at what is on the lot today and what was on the lot in 1997. 20 years ago you could pick up a world-class Supra or a proper Land Cruiser or a Tacoma or a Camry or Corolla that could practically be the last commuter car you ever need. All of them stubbornly reliable. many of the cars Toyota had on the lot in 1997 still sell for close to their retail price! T…

> 20 years ago you could pick up a world-class Supra or a proper Land Cruiser or a Tacoma or a Camry or Corolla that could practically be the last commuter car you ever need. All of them stubbornly reliable. many of the cars Toyota had on the lot in 1997 still sell for close to their retail price! The mid-90s to early 2000s were a golden era for Japanese cars. I dream of importing a Nissan Silvia S15[1] with the lege…

Amazing! Thanks for the link.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#204

Post by mulmen »

BuckRogers wrote: post #188
mulmen wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Tacoma is still available and still excellent but the Tacomas they built in the mid 90s are still in very high demand. My point in bringing them up is that they had a full lineup of truly excellent vehicles. The new ones are great pickups but they are expensive and like everything else awfully bloated. In the 90s you could get an all wheel drive turbocharged Celica or a twin turbocharged Supra or the lightweight…

I've often wondered the same. I remember my doctor in the 90s had a Supra. But I've felt for a while now that the heydays of interesting cars are over. Where I'm at, most people aren't buying new cars like we were back then. I'm ok with Toyota's lineup because I just want the best possible chances at low to no maintenance. Excitement post 9/11 just means no WW3. But they could use a jolt for sure, they at least need…

Totally agreed. The Tacoma is bloated and expensive relative to its older siblings but not it's current day competition. More of a commment on all vehicles getting bigger and having more buttons added over the years. Time will tell but I don't think a 2017 Tacoma will hold up as well after 20 years as a 1997 Tacoma. That's not necessarily a bad thing either I just distrust all the gadgets from a long-term reliability standpoint.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#205

Post by ajtaylor »

mulmen wrote: post #130
BuckRogers wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Tacoma is still there? That's what I'm buying next time. According to all the studies, the reliability is still there too. It's all probability, doesn't make it a tank or bulletproof but Toyota is still the best bet other than Lexus. The models don't change much because that's a part of maintaining quality and reliability. The US companies are kings of constant rehashing and quality suffers. If I want a cool car…

The Tacoma is still available and still excellent but the Tacomas they built in the mid 90s are still in very high demand. My point in bringing them up is that they had a full lineup of truly excellent vehicles. The new ones are great pickups but they are expensive and like everything else awfully bloated. In the 90s you could get an all wheel drive turbocharged Celica or a twin turbocharged Supra or the lightweight…

I remember lusting after the twin turbo Supra back in my teens. "Porsche performance at a Toyota price" is the quote from a car magazine I remember (Car & Driver maybe?) Never actually drove one, but maybe I'll include them on the list for my next car.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#206

Post by mulmen »

patrickk wrote: post #177
mulmen wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am disappointed in Toyota's current offerings. Take a look at what is on the lot today and what was on the lot in 1997. 20 years ago you could pick up a world-class Supra or a proper Land Cruiser or a Tacoma or a Camry or Corolla that could practically be the last commuter car you ever need. All of them stubbornly reliable. many of the cars Toyota had on the lot in 1997 still sell for close to their retail price! T…

> 20 years ago you could pick up a world-class Supra or a proper Land Cruiser or a Tacoma or a Camry or Corolla that could practically be the last commuter car you ever need. All of them stubbornly reliable. many of the cars Toyota had on the lot in 1997 still sell for close to their retail price! The mid-90s to early 2000s were a golden era for Japanese cars. I dream of importing a Nissan Silvia S15[1] with the lege…

Exactly! In a past life I had purchased a 1973 S30 with the intention of swapping in an LS-1 from an old Camaro, GTO or Corvette. I quickly changed my mind on that and decided on an RB26DETT because it's still a Nissan motor and the price isn't much different.

Life happened and that project had to be abandoned but I would really like to give it a go one of these days. At this point I think the SR20DET is the ideal motor for an S30.

The RB26 still has a very strong appeal however...

e: If you have not already seen them you may find Doug DeMuro's Skyline exploits entertaining: https://youtu.be/5eFA3cwfR3E

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#207

Post by mulmen »

ajtaylor wrote: post #205
mulmen wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Tacoma is still available and still excellent but the Tacomas they built in the mid 90s are still in very high demand. My point in bringing them up is that they had a full lineup of truly excellent vehicles. The new ones are great pickups but they are expensive and like everything else awfully bloated. In the 90s you could get an all wheel drive turbocharged Celica or a twin turbocharged Supra or the lightweight…

I remember lusting after the twin turbo Supra back in my teens. "Porsche performance at a Toyota price" is the quote from a car magazine I remember (Car & Driver maybe?) Never actually drove one, but maybe I'll include them on the list for my next car.

Non-molested versions still sell for close to or even over(!) original retail price.

The 2JZ-GTE is a marvel of an engine. It's got a turbocharged turbocharger! How cool is that!?

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#208

Post by pixelbill »

NamTaf wrote: post #115
pixelbill wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>I wasn't dismissing the criticisms What you did was the definition of dismissing the criticisms. You bring them up then immediately downplay the issue and change the topic to your "comfortable, performant, nimble and all-round decent" experience, in the same sentence! You end with a criticism of a competitor's car, and close with "I can only say good things about the VW Polo". Your entire post was filled with fluff…

As I said, I would've liked to reword the original to say something along the lines of "Notwithstanding the valid criticisms about their cheating of emissions requirements..." and also clarified that the above experience I had explains why to me it's not surprising that consumers are buying more VWs. Unfortunately, I can't change the post, which is why I had to say it in the reply. The criticisms of VW are valid - th…

How dare I call out a power user like yourself, have fun with that.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#209

Post by voidlogic »

Sacho wrote: post #118
voidlogic wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>though I hope you're joking about the guillotine I read that remark as this: If corporations are people legally, there should be certain crimes that lead to their dissolution. I assumed this was the proposal: If a corporation does something evil enough, its leaders going to prison and paying a fine isn't enough, it should face the corporate guillotine which revokes its incorporation.

What would that gain you? Wouldnt the same capital holders pool their wealth into a newly minted corporation to continue exploiting the resources they have accrued? Are you going to seize the assets of the corporation and redistribute them? How is your proposed dissolution different from a fine big enough to bankrupt a company?

>What would that gain you?

This is a deterrent and would be very disruptive to the owners conducting business. It would discourage investors from elevating questionable people to boards of directors.

It could be something like this: 1. Sell/auction assets 2. Pay fines and damages and debts 3. Split remaining proceeds amongst non-legally culpable share holders

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#210

Post by usaphp »

njharman wrote: post #141
usaphp wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there aren't many cars in India compared to US or even some small European countries.

You are ignorant. http://apps.who.int/gho/data/node.main.A995 India 159m, USA 265m registered vehicles. India is the 6th largest producer of vehicles.

Vast majority of those are 2 and 3 wheelers, we are not talking about those.
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