Steve Jobs to Valleywag at 2:20 AM: “Why are you so bitter?” • Hacker News Board

Re: Steve Jobs to Valleywag at 2:20 AM: “Why are you so bitter?”

#31

Post by isleyaardvark » Sun, May 16, 2010, 1:54 PM UTC

_delirium wrote: post #12

mburney wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Upvoted for hilarity factor. But from a logical standpoint this is really a bad argument. Writing often has a destructive purpose; what the person has "created" has very little to do with whether his criticism is valid or not.

Yeah, it's also a pretty weird attitude. Certainly not one that scientifically or engineering-minded people should have. If someone alleges that your physics experiment has a problem, the proper answer isn't: "Oh yeah? Well I've got tenure and recently won a major award in my field. What kind of physics discoveries have you made lately?" Scientists actually lose a lot of reputation if they start getting that sort of…

I don't think Jobs was talking about engineering there, he was talking about business decisions. Look at these quotes from the last set of exchanges:

You have the chance to set the tone for a new platform. For the new phone and tablet platform. The platform of the future! I am disappointed to see it’s the same old revenge power bullshit.

By the way, what have you done that’s so great? Do you create anything, or just criticize others work and belittle their motivations?

(Emphasis added) Jobs mentions several times it's a business decision for the platform made to create a good customer experience. Incidentally, I wouldn't be bothered by a scientist who had that attitude, if he was given vague criticism by someone without a physics background.

Re: Steve Jobs to Valleywag at 2:20 AM: “Why are you so bitter?”

#32

Post by jpark » Sun, May 16, 2010, 6:58 PM UTC

patgarner wrote: post #27

jpark wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and what has Steve Jobs literally made himself as opposed to telling others what to make? Jobs has made less than probably most people on HN. Let's hear it for the countless thousands of engineers and designers who break their backs for Steve so he can be literally lord it over those who obviously aren't the great "maker" that he is.

For one, Apple Computers.

sorry, most of that early work was done by Woz. please demonstrate any significant code written or schematics created by Jobs.

Re: Steve Jobs to Valleywag at 2:20 AM: “Why are you so bitter?”

#33

Post by voidpointer » Sun, May 16, 2010, 7:38 PM UTC

bartl wrote: post #30

voidpointer wrote: post #7

It looks like some commenters here and on the linked site actually believe this is a genuine email exchange with the real Steve Jobs... Why?

It looks like you don't believe that it's even possible. Why?

It feels like it is more likely that this is made up than Jobs actually replying to some random dudes email.

Re: Steve Jobs to Valleywag at 2:20 AM: “Why are you so bitter?”

#34

Post by patgarner » Mon, May 17, 2010, 1:08 AM UTC

jpark wrote: post #32

patgarner wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For one, Apple Computers.

sorry, most of that early work was done by Woz. please demonstrate any significant code written or schematics created by Jobs.

My apologies, I wasn't clear. I was speaking specifically about the company itself.

Re: Steve Jobs to Valleywag at 2:20 AM: “Why are you so bitter?”

#35

Post by delackner » Mon, May 17, 2010, 4:26 AM UTC

mburney wrote: post #11

batiudrami wrote: post #3

"By the way, what have you done that's so great? Do you create anything, or just criticise others work and belittle their motivations?" Burn.

Upvoted for hilarity factor. But from a logical standpoint this is really a bad argument. Writing often has a destructive purpose; what the person has "created" has very little to do with whether his criticism is valid or not.

The original quote is simply a defensive version of _why's much HN-loved quote:

"When you don’t create things, you become defined by your tastes rather than ability. Your tastes only narrow and exclude people. so create."

Jobs is a human being. How would you like it if you poured yourself into creating the best platform experience that you think is possible, and you find all around you critics that sound to you as if they are saying "fuck you for only making me a chocolate cake, bake me one with strawberries on top!"

Re: Steve Jobs to Valleywag at 2:20 AM: “Why are you so bitter?”

#36

Post by drivebyacct » Mon, May 17, 2010, 4:33 AM UTC

ecaradec wrote: post #9

As a programmer I thought that preventing the use of some language on a platform by contract really sucked, but I've seen applications written in flash on the IPhone since and they are painfully slow. I don't have an IPhone but I can understand that having lots of applications in the store and not knowing whether an application you try would be slow or fast would really feel like a lottery. It's sad because the adobe…

"The impact on the battery would be unsolvable too."

That simply is not true. Flash on Android does not destroy the battery, going off of what testers, developers have reported as well as the video demo that plays video in Flash for a while and shows the impact on the battery life.

Also, your comment does not speak to the fact that Apple is banning the Flash-to-native iPhone app compiler. That does not fall victim to the Flash-is-slow scenario you're offering.

Also, poorly written Flash apps can be slow. Poorly written iOS apps can be slow as well.

Re: Steve Jobs to Valleywag at 2:20 AM: “Why are you so bitter?”

#37

Post by andreyf » Mon, May 17, 2010, 9:50 PM UTC

jpark wrote: post #25

andreyf wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But unlike a physics experiment, the decisions about open or closed platforms are moral. It's the equivalent of criticizing Gandhi for some minor detail of his fasting, to which he says "no, this is how I will fast, because this is my fasting and my movement". "Oh, and when have you ever started a movement? Or do you just criticize others?"

Btw, it's this type of close-mindedness and insularity that leads to tremendous abuses in society. Witness the Catholic abuse scandals. Can one criticize the Church without being a member or part of its leadership structure or even without believing in God? I hope so.

Did you seriously just equate curating the App Store with raping children? And get 5 points for it?

Re: Steve Jobs to Valleywag at 2:20 AM: “Why are you so bitter?”

#38

Post by ecaradec » Tue, May 18, 2010, 10:27 AM UTC

drivebyacct wrote: post #36

ecaradec wrote: post #9

As a programmer I thought that preventing the use of some language on a platform by contract really sucked, but I've seen applications written in flash on the IPhone since and they are painfully slow. I don't have an IPhone but I can understand that having lots of applications in the store and not knowing whether an application you try would be slow or fast would really feel like a lottery. It's sad because the adobe…

"The impact on the battery would be unsolvable too." That simply is not true. Flash on Android does not destroy the battery, going off of what testers, developers have reported as well as the video demo that plays video in Flash for a while and shows the impact on the battery life. Also, your comment does not speak to the fact that Apple is banning the Flash-to-native iPhone app compiler. That does not fall victim to…

Yes the impact of the battery would be unsolvable. Even if it isn't very bad, just a bit bad, the issue is that you have all that extra layer, consuming battery life. And battery life is probably the biggest issue in portable devices these days. There is no way to put a bigger one to solve the problem. There is no bigger one, and there won't be one in the next years probably.

Yes, the flash to native ban suck but it's probably not the way the flash works on the iphone with cs5 given the performance I've seen. As a programmer, it has no sense to vorbid a language, as every language are sort of equivalent in the end.

I would like to see flash works on iphone, and androids but the current port is slow for even the simplest thing. Even a single movie clip was slow on what I've seen. It's not possible to write a responsive flash app if even that is slow. There is no code, it can't be poorly written...