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Steve Jobs to Valleywag at 2:20 AM: “Why are you so bitter?”

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Re: Steve Jobs to Valleywag at 2:20 AM: “Why are you so bitter?”

#21

Post by andreyf »

buster wrote: post #14
rrhyne wrote: post #4

I love that there is no reply after Steve's final question. What DOES this guy make?

I love how Steve does not really answer the tricky questions and only goes the "Apple is your savior" path. What makes me bitter is that Apple clearly gives a sh*t about porn or flash or whatever. Steve cares about the money, nothing more. And on this way he spits on the freedom of the users. But whatever.. i will again get downvoted because most people here feel attacked and will smash the little down arrow like a l…

Steve cares about the money

That seems be contradicted by his $1/year salary.

Re: Steve Jobs to Valleywag at 2:20 AM: “Why are you so bitter?”

#23

Post by acqq »

waterlesscloud wrote: post #17

It's good to be reminded that Jobs really does think he's doing the right thing. He's wrong, but he does seem to genuinely believe it.

No, he is right. If you don't want to make great apps, you are free not to make them, or to make that what you think would be great with Flash for another platforms (but note that evan Adobe can't make the demo which doesn't crash on these other platforms(!)).

Exactly the selection of what makes his platform is what makes it unique and, to people who buy the product, better than other offerings.

Re: Steve Jobs to Valleywag at 2:20 AM: “Why are you so bitter?”

#24

Post by jpark »

andreyf wrote: post #20
_delirium wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's also a pretty weird attitude. Certainly not one that scientifically or engineering-minded people should have. If someone alleges that your physics experiment has a problem, the proper answer isn't: "Oh yeah? Well I've got tenure and recently won a major award in my field. What kind of physics discoveries have you made lately?" Scientists actually lose a lot of reputation if they start getting that sort of…

But unlike a physics experiment, the decisions about open or closed platforms are moral. It's the equivalent of criticizing Gandhi for some minor detail of his fasting, to which he says "no, this is how I will fast, because this is my fasting and my movement". "Oh, and when have you ever started a movement? Or do you just criticize others?"

hmm...ok, so a political dissident can't criticize a brutal dicatorship because he's never created a brutal dictatorship before?

Re: Steve Jobs to Valleywag at 2:20 AM: “Why are you so bitter?”

#25

Post by jpark »

andreyf wrote: post #20
_delirium wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's also a pretty weird attitude. Certainly not one that scientifically or engineering-minded people should have. If someone alleges that your physics experiment has a problem, the proper answer isn't: "Oh yeah? Well I've got tenure and recently won a major award in my field. What kind of physics discoveries have you made lately?" Scientists actually lose a lot of reputation if they start getting that sort of…

But unlike a physics experiment, the decisions about open or closed platforms are moral. It's the equivalent of criticizing Gandhi for some minor detail of his fasting, to which he says "no, this is how I will fast, because this is my fasting and my movement". "Oh, and when have you ever started a movement? Or do you just criticize others?"

Btw, it's this type of close-mindedness and insularity that leads to tremendous abuses in society. Witness the Catholic abuse scandals. Can one criticize the Church without being a member or part of its leadership structure or even without believing in God? I hope so.

Re: Steve Jobs to Valleywag at 2:20 AM: “Why are you so bitter?”

#26

Post by zecg »

Except for that ridiculous moralizing about porn (firstly, the platform should not be designed to censor content and secondly, stopping porn by not having Flash seems stupidly inefficient), Jobs is perfectly right. It's their platform and they can choose what to offer. While not an Apple user, I am nevertheless thoroughly enjoying Adobe's problems - been burned by crappy Flash plugins on Linux and I feel a sane and open wrapper for video is long overdue. Go suck a bag of dicks, Adobe. Your indispensible Flash is getting less so with every effort such as this one.

Re: Steve Jobs to Valleywag at 2:20 AM: “Why are you so bitter?”

#27

Post by patgarner »

jpark wrote: post #18
grinich wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyway, making something is good, but not making something doesn't mean you lose any credibility. It means you don't have credibility to start with.

and what has Steve Jobs literally made himself as opposed to telling others what to make? Jobs has made less than probably most people on HN. Let's hear it for the countless thousands of engineers and designers who break their backs for Steve so he can be literally lord it over those who obviously aren't the great "maker" that he is.

For one, Apple Computers.

Re: Steve Jobs to Valleywag at 2:20 AM: “Why are you so bitter?”

#28

Post by buster »

andreyf wrote: post #21
buster wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love how Steve does not really answer the tricky questions and only goes the "Apple is your savior" path. What makes me bitter is that Apple clearly gives a sh*t about porn or flash or whatever. Steve cares about the money, nothing more. And on this way he spits on the freedom of the users. But whatever.. i will again get downvoted because most people here feel attacked and will smash the little down arrow like a l…

Steve cares about the money That seems be contradicted by his $1/year salary.

I didn't mention his salary.

Re: Steve Jobs to Valleywag at 2:20 AM: “Why are you so bitter?”

#29

Post by buster »

zecg wrote: post #26

Except for that ridiculous moralizing about porn (firstly, the platform should not be designed to censor content and secondly, stopping porn by not having Flash seems stupidly inefficient), Jobs is perfectly right. It's their platform and they can choose what to offer. While not an Apple user, I am nevertheless thoroughly enjoying Adobe's problems - been burned by crappy Flash plugins on Linux and I feel a sane and o…

And another one that didn't get it. The mails are not about Flash videos on the web. They are about writing cross platform programs that are not running on a flash plugin on the iPhone but are cross compiled to ObjC.

The "but developers can choose whether they want to write their programm for iPhone OS or for other platforms"-argument is so ridiculous, it makes me cry. In practice people have no choice but to develop for iPhone OS (because it's the biggest app platform) and then, if money/time/effort allows, write a second app for the rest of the world. And i think, as a developer i can complain and bitch all day about it, even if it won't change something. Of course, Steve can do whatever he likes with the platform. If developers like that is another question.

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