New H1-B Visa bill doubles the salary requirements to $130K/yr • Hacker News Board

Re: New H1-B Visa bill doubles the salary requirements to $130K/yr

#391

Post by cbhl » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 9:24 PM UTC

winter_blue wrote: post #121

anondon wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the impression that this new bill is like putting lipstick on a pig which is the current system. I was hoping the amendments to the H1-B bill would be one of the silver linings of a Trump presidency, but I guess not anymore.

I've commented on this before, at: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13433540 I'm copying the comment below: --- I'm on an H-1B, and the thing that infuriates me about the dialogue on this is that they are effectively trying to ban skilled immigration, and exclude people like me from coming. If you don't qualify for the family-based or refugee route, employment-based immigration is the only viable pathway. The amo…

Americans straight out of undergrad should easily be able to command $105k+ base salary now, plus stock.

I have seen H-1Bs get paid less than their American counterparts, for doing the exact same work.

Raising the salary floor on H-1Bs would be good for all employees in the sector, both Americans and those on H-1Bs. (There might be a small drop in the number of jobs, but the quality of life in those jobs will be much better.)

Re: New H1-B Visa bill doubles the salary requirements to $130K/yr

#392

Post by smsm42 » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 9:25 PM UTC

WildUtah wrote: post #353

tn13 wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> DHS to investigate worksites This is not a man in suite arriving at site via Uber asking polite questions. This is mostly a SWAT team storming through all doors and killing dogs if any an then taking away all your documents, interviewing all employees. In short that is end of business to you. Remember they will not come alone. They will bring sleuths from all other departments and you will be fined for not having a…

This is mostly a SWAT team storming through all doors and killing dogs if any an then taking away all your documents, interviewing all employees. In short that is end of business to you. Yes. That is exactly what I want employers thinking when the offer of cheap H1-Bs tempts them. Let's have a lot more on-site enforcement, please. And a few horror stories in the media would be a great benefit to Americans.

No it won't. It's not fun to live in a country where only way to make people to follow the law is to have armed raids that kills their dogs and destroys their homes. That should be exception reserved to dangerous violent criminals, not the first resort when some paper lacks proper signature.

Re: New H1-B Visa bill doubles the salary requirements to $130K/yr

#393

Post by WildUtah » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 9:26 PM UTC

ianai wrote: post #383

_Wintermute wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Foreign science grads are what is driving the US as a leader in R&D. Look at the post-docs at labs in MIT, look at the US Nobel prize winners - the majority of them are immigrants If companies are limited to domestic scientists then they'll quite happily move their R&D departments to countries with more relaxed immigration laws. Foreign universities will happily take the best researchers from around the world that ar…

The elephant no one seems to talk about is: Why are universities not accepting more "local" grad students? In my experience, it was the standardized tests. I was completing an undergrad in math while attempting to the GRE. Meanwhile I heard stories of students in other countries essentially focusing on the GRE as their undergrad equivalents weren't as time consuming/rigorous.

In my experience, standardized tests play almost no role in STEM grad school admissions. Why would a math department care about your score on a vocabulary test like the GRE, as long as you speak fluent English?

The keys are, above all, good recommendations from respectable academics and some kind of research experience followed by high undergrad grades. A high GRE score can't substitute for any of those.

Of course, the foreigners can manufacture the grades and recommendations with a little cash. Maybe even the research experience. They probably do have to study English to pass the standardized tests: The one that matters for them is the TOEFL.

Re: New H1-B Visa bill doubles the salary requirements to $130K/yr

#394

Post by WildUtah » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 9:27 PM UTC

serge2k wrote: post #378

WildUtah wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't qualify for the family-based or refugee route, employment-based immigration is the only viable pathway. The amount of hate I see piled on people trying to come here via the employment-based immigration seems insane to me. These Clearly the rate of family-based immigration is insane. And the lack of requirements for any kind of skills that would benefit America for relatives is costing America. Outside sp…

> America is already crowded. America isn't crowded. America is mostly pretty empty. http://www2.census.gov/geo/pdfs/maps-data/maps/thematic/us_p...

The question isn't how much desert or glacier a country has. It's whether a family can afford a place to live and if you can get where you're going in the city without waiting forever in traffic. America is failing badly at both those essential criteria.

Re: New H1-B Visa bill doubles the salary requirements to $130K/yr

#395

Post by zaidf » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 9:28 PM UTC

This is such no-brainer reform. I really hope the Valley comes together and crushes the H1-Bs used up by employees of Wipro, Infosys etc. at the expense of much more exceptional people employed by amazon, google etc.

Re: New H1-B Visa bill doubles the salary requirements to $130K/yr

#396

Post by WildUtah » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 9:32 PM UTC

smsm42 wrote: post #392

WildUtah wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is mostly a SWAT team storming through all doors and killing dogs if any an then taking away all your documents, interviewing all employees. In short that is end of business to you. Yes. That is exactly what I want employers thinking when the offer of cheap H1-Bs tempts them. Let's have a lot more on-site enforcement, please. And a few horror stories in the media would be a great benefit to Americans.

No it won't. It's not fun to live in a country where only way to make people to follow the law is to have armed raids that kills their dogs and destroys their homes. That should be exception reserved to dangerous violent criminals, not the first resort when some paper lacks proper signature.

That's nice. The typical H1-B employer has been breaking the law and ruining prospect for American families for decades and there's no enforcement of the rules in sight anywhere. At this point, we'll take whatever means of enforcement we can get.

This is what blowback from years of privileged abuse of the law looks like.

Heck, the entire Trump phenomenon is what blowback from extended abuse of elite privilege looks like. It isn't pretty, but the elites refused all other means of curbing their exploitation.

Re: New H1-B Visa bill doubles the salary requirements to $130K/yr

#397

Post by smsm42 » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 9:35 PM UTC

WildUtah wrote: post #365

toephu2 wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Everyone can learn how to code, it's not a real science." Yes but not everyone who learns to code can get a job coding. Not everyone can get into Google or Facebook just cause they learned to code. The software engineering interviews don't test your ability to code, they test your ability to problem solve w/ data structures & algorithms.

If you live in middle America flyover country it's hard to get any tech job. And the H1-B program is making it a lot harder.

If you think banning access to international talent will make next startup owner to set up shop in Omaha, you are sadly mistaken. It'll be Toronto, or Vancouver.

Re: New H1-B Visa bill doubles the salary requirements to $130K/yr

#398

Post by cryptozeus » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 9:38 PM UTC

For all those worried about their job, just remember this is just a bill that was introduced. It takes around 200 days for bill to pass and become a law. Also 96% of the bills die during the process.

https://www.quora.com/How-long-does-it-take-to-pass-a-bill-i...

Re: New H1-B Visa bill doubles the salary requirements to $130K/yr

#399

Post by smsm42 » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 9:40 PM UTC

sfifs wrote: post #208

readhn wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are clearly outside of the field. There are tons of jobs in the biotech industry for qualified graduates. The issue is finding people with appropriate scientific and industry backgrounds. This is why h1bs are hired. I don't care what color you are and where you come from. If you know your stuff I will hire you.

if there's really a scarcity, then there shouldn't be a problem paying higher wages as these bills require right - especially given how huge money-spinners successful drug molecules can be.

You seem to be assuming that salaries are based only on scarcity. This is of course wrong - they also are based on available budgets. If there's nobody to hire for available money, the result may be not more money offered, but less startups surviving. Startup can be hugely successful - but more likely it would be wasted money. Salary floor means more money wasted, means higher risk, means less startups. Or at least less startups located in the jurisdiction having price floors.

Re: New H1-B Visa bill doubles the salary requirements to $130K/yr

#400

Post by Bartweiss » Tue, Jan 31, 2017, 9:42 PM UTC

winter_blue wrote: post #345

Bartweiss wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm honestly a bit confused to see this point raised here. I certainly have seen vitriol aimed at H-1B workers, including on HN. Raising minimum salary would be a way to restrict the program, but the comment you're replying to specifically calls that change "lipstick on a pig". I guess 'lipstick' might be an endorsement, but it's fair to say that this bill is about making Americans happier with a still-broken system.…

> Firstly, yes, there are a lot of consulting firms That's true, there are a lot of consulting firms like Tata/Infosys/Wipro that use up a large chunk of the available H-1B visas. They only pay their workers like $80,000 on average , and almost never sponsor a green card. The other thing is that a big chunk (like >50%) of the people at these firms are on visas. I'd like to see a solution that limits that sort of use,…

> and almost never sponsor a green card

> to require higher wages if more than 20% of the employees are on visa

This is the sort of change I'd like to see. H-1B should be a stepping-stone to offering citizenship to skilled workers who want it. (Regardless of original intent - it's both practical and moral for the US to do this.) The possibility of creating a perpetual pool of visa contractors is one of my main complaints, and I'd like to see more visa slots opened to companies willing to pay well and sponsor for green cards.

> This is a misconception.

Interesting context, thank you. I knew about the change of employer (I think that's common knowledge?) but I'd heard horror stories of people being told, basically, "shut up or we'll fire you right now and you'll have an employment gap". Or just being fired outright, to show other visa employees how little bargaining power they had.

I didn't know about the 2017 allowance for employment gaps. That's awesome news, and that change specifically is one I've wanted to see for a while.

As for your experience, I'm glad it worked out, but I do consider it a horrible problem with the visa system. Forcing people to leave the country during their application process is stupid (and harmful to anyone short on money), it worsens problems like the recent re-entry ban Trump enacted, and it's a bit delicate with actual legal status; losing legal status here can have consequences almost immediately if someone cares to enforce them.

More broadly, I hate how much of the US visa system involves getting lucky with paperwork, or having an administrator look the other way. I'm glad to know about the 60 day improvement, and I'd love to see further extensions to allow easier green card access or student-to-work rollovers.