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Welcome, ACLU

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Re: Welcome, ACLU

#421

Post by cptskippy »

CydeWeys wrote: post #11

I don't know exactly what this means, as the implementation details are hazy, but if this entails substantial support to the ACLU (in terms of lawyers, money, or both), then that is awesome. I donated to the ACLU yesterday and I'm encouraging everyone I know to do the same.

I would caution people about how they donate to the ACLU. I made a donation last year and since then have been awash in solicitations for donations from SCLC, Planned Parenthood, Grean Peace, PETA, and other leftist organizations.

While I don't object to many of these organizations, I take my privacy very seriously and I wasn't aware when I donated that my personal information would be given/sold out the way it has been.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#422

Post by davidw »

sidlls wrote: post #359
katm wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can be cynical about us bringing in the ACLU, but in the words of Maya Angelou: “Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better.”

In that case, I fully expect to see continued activity on this front even after the next Democratic adminstration and congress continues the Bush-Obama-Trump programs that are (finally) meeting resistance. I won't hold my breath waiting for that, though. Usually what happens is that when one's favored party regains power the criticism suddenly disappears.

The ACLU is not a partisan group. They've criticized Obama where they felt it appropriate:

https://action.aclu.org/secure/president_obama_deportations

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#423

Post by rocqua »

muninn_ wrote: post #41

Although I think the American Civil Liberties Union is incredibly valuable and I'm glad they have a lot more money now to fight for the American people, I'm questioning all of this. Where was the outpouring of funding when black people were being gunned down by cops from West Coast organizations? Where has YCombinator been as our own impoverished African-Americans are getting slaughtered in the streets of Chicago? Wh…

The reason is that there has been progress or at worst stagnation on these issues. Moreover, what is happening now seems to be damaging the process of government itself. Whilst the things you mention are horrible, they are the result of bad government rather than an attack on the idea of government.

The above does ignore the rather obvious 'which issue affects affluent people more?' question.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#424

Post by tptacek »

TorKlingberg wrote: post #386
tptacek wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an entirely legitimate concern. We're not meant to sit here stroking our chins and purring about the good deeds of our favorite companies. YC has an incredible position in Silicon Valley, built over a decade with the help and influence of people like us. To whom much is given, much is required. I'm glad YC is helping ACLU out this winter. But ACLU took in more money in 1 day last week than NILC, the National…

I am not comfortable having big companies as the protectors of civil liberties, but I'd rather have them fighting for freedom than against.

I'm not saying that we should be unhappy about this, just that nobody should apologize for putting more pressure on YC. Their karmic debt is enormous.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#425

Post by cloakandswagger »

toast0 wrote: post #345
cloakandswagger wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They defend every part of the Constitution except the Second Amendment. That hypocrisy is why the ACLU will never see a penny from me.

Not defending the 2nd amendment is different than opposing it. You could consider donating to the ACLU and also to an organization that defends the 2nd amendment; assuming there's no blanket organization to your liking. There are many organizations specializing in the 2nd amendment, so it makes some amount of sense for the ACLU to let them do that work, while it's more of a generalist.

>Not defending the 2nd amendment is different than opposing it.

That's not how it works, at least not in my mind. When dealing with something that is assailed as frequently as gun rights, lack of support is the same as opposition.

I want an organization that supports the Constitution, completely and fully.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#426

Post by har777 »

deskamess wrote: post #410
CydeWeys wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully it happens the other way around, no?

Hopefully not... YC needs to retain the inclusiveness. It should have the ability to disagree with civility. If PT is acting in a way that hurts YC's investments then I expect YC to have a civil discussion with him.

True. But how much is too much ? If someone is say racist do you still not kick him out for the sake of inclusiveness ?

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#427

Post by joshfraser »

I've been a long time supporter of the ACLU. While they're being politicized right now as being anti-Trump, the thing I admire most about them is their consistency in fighting for the rights of everyone. They stick to their principles of free speech and human equality no matter how unpopular the issue or unsavory their client.

A good example is back in the 1930s when the ACLU simultaneously defended the rights of blacks on behalf of the NAACP at the same time as they were fighting for the rights of the Klu Klux Klan to hold rallies calling for the abolition of those rights.

The strength of your convictions are only tested at the extremes. Do you still believe in free speech when it's coming from neo-Nazis? The ACLU do and I deeply respect them for that.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#428

Post by leshow »

muninn_ wrote: post #41

Although I think the American Civil Liberties Union is incredibly valuable and I'm glad they have a lot more money now to fight for the American people, I'm questioning all of this. Where was the outpouring of funding when black people were being gunned down by cops from West Coast organizations? Where has YCombinator been as our own impoverished African-Americans are getting slaughtered in the streets of Chicago? Wh…

I don't care whether google, ycombinator, airbnb, etc acted out of their own self-interest or not (for marketing, as you say). I don't think anyone should. I'm not naive enough to think they would act altruistically, all I can hope for is that our interests align at least temporarily and they help.

Perhaps they could've done more in the situations you're describing, but it seems odd to chastise them now that they are. Would you rather they didn't ever help?

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#429

Post by TillE »

coldpie wrote: post #344
TorKlingberg wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* Much of pg's writing leans libertarian or even conservative. * Many conservatives do not support Trump's policies. Conservativism is traditionally about preserving stable society and carefully evaluating changes before radically changing society. I think many took a wait-and-see approach to Trump. Sure, he was bombastic during the campaign and said a lot of bad things, but he's a screwd businessman. Surely he will…

Time for conservatives to sack up, speak out, and vote their conscious, then. They've been extremely quiet so far.

There are like two dozen actual "conservative" true believers in America, and most of them (Bill Kristol, David Frum, etc) hold some pretty odious views about things like war and torture.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#430

Post by jMyles »

illuminati1911 wrote: post #85
muninn_ wrote: post #41

Although I think the American Civil Liberties Union is incredibly valuable and I'm glad they have a lot more money now to fight for the American people, I'm questioning all of this. Where was the outpouring of funding when black people were being gunned down by cops from West Coast organizations? Where has YCombinator been as our own impoverished African-Americans are getting slaughtered in the streets of Chicago? Wh…

Maybe the ACLU wants to support innocent people in warn-torn countries more than black gangsters and anti-police anarchists/terrorists?

> anarchists/terrorists

What kind of ridiculous designation is that?

"Anarchist" and "Terrorist" are nearly mutually exclusive.

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