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Welcome, ACLU

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Re: Welcome, ACLU

#351

Post by forgetsusername »

andy_ppp wrote: post #146

There are quite a few comments by presumably more right wing people marked as dead here. Excluding these people from debate this way makes hacker news less useful IMO. Why not make constructive criticism instead of downvoting, I realise it's easier...

HackerNews loves to pat itself on the back about what a great community it is, but when it comes to politics (and other specific topics) the bullying and one-sidedness is as bad as anywhere on the internet.

But this is exactly why half of America is in utter shock about what's happening: their discussion circles involve one "side", and the other isn't acceptable.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#352

Post by edblarney »

wavefunction wrote: post #68
ihsw wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just Peter Thiel but anyone of sound mind -- the top 5 countries by Muslim-majority population are not included. * Indonesia 204,847,000 (87.2%) * Pakistan 178,097,000 (96.4%) * India 172,245,158 (14.2%) * Bangladesh 145,312,000 (90%) * Nigeria 75,728,000 (47.9%) If Indonesia suddenly became plagued by radical Islamic terrorism then it would be on the list too. The seven countries targeted by the immigration…

Why were Saudi Arabia and Egypt left off the list? That's where most of the 9/11 hijackers and planners hailed from. I think you're hearing echoes in your "sound mind."

"Why were Saudi Arabia and Egypt left off the list? "

The nations on the list have vast regions of lawlessness and they've lost control of their populations.

Egypt, Tunisia, Kuwait etc. have functioning governments that are very actively engaged against terrorism.

Remember that ISIS/AlQueda wants to take out the House of Saud before they go after the USA :)

The 'Islamic countries not on the list' are much more afraid of terrorism than the US is.

Just today a Saudi ship was hit by a missile from Iranian backed terrorists in Yemen, off the coast.

The only country that is on the list that has a 'sound government' is Iran - but they are state-sponsors of terror, and are actively trying to destabilize the region - and pushing hard to topple Saudi, as well as supporting Assad. I suggest that one is a little more political because Iran does not itself produce terrorists of the kind we are afraid are going to come and 'bomb America'.

I don't agree with Trumps policy - but 'the list' is quite rational.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#353

Post by m3rc »

throwaway76543 wrote: post #338
m3rc wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? This is a giant [citation needed]

Right here: https://www.aclu.org/other/second-amendment It's well established that the ACLU refuses to defend the individual civil right to armed self defense.

That all seems pretty clear to me. It's not up to you to interpret the 2nd Amendment for them.

Not to mention that orgs like the NRA have many times more funding than the ACLU and dedicate every action to that one issue.

Or the fact that you're dealing with a organization that has been one of the biggest and best defenders of oppressed groups in recent history and you're cranky that they're not gonna help you own a handgun like most of congress is.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#354

Post by [deleted] »

muninn_ wrote: post #41

Although I think the American Civil Liberties Union is incredibly valuable and I'm glad they have a lot more money now to fight for the American people, I'm questioning all of this. Where was the outpouring of funding when black people were being gunned down by cops from West Coast organizations? Where has YCombinator been as our own impoverished African-Americans are getting slaughtered in the streets of Chicago? Wh…

[deleted]

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#355

Post by ajamesm »

geofft wrote: post #302
ajamesm wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

seems like the meaning is shifting from "non-sacrificial action taken solely to signify virtue" with "any action taken in the name of virtues I don't embrace"

Cool. Is Trump's get-rid-of-two-regulations executive order "virtue signaling"?

In tandem with the gag order, though, there's the angle of entirely halting the work of government agencies.

'Virtue signaling' is a criticism of people who put social approval before productive work. Someone who 'virtue signals' isn't opposed to a cause, though they exploit it out of narcissism.

But in this case, the entire point of these EOs is that they are specifically crafted to interfere with gov't agencies, while appearing to cut through red tape. It's red meat for the base, but that's just a bonus.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#356

Post by jstalin »

digitalneal wrote: post #276
jstalin wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course you know the answer: The ACLU is a political organization. Edit: Not a peep out of the ACLU when the Obama administration permanently ended the Cuban refugee program and many refugees in Mexico are now being deported back to Cuba because there is no chance of them being accepted in the US. 60 day pause on refugees from seven middle-eastern countries identified and signed into law by the Obama administration…

Maybe because the ACLU is about American civil liberties.

Then not about seven middle-eastern countries civil liberties?

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#357

Post by nrjames »

muninn_ wrote: post #41

Although I think the American Civil Liberties Union is incredibly valuable and I'm glad they have a lot more money now to fight for the American people, I'm questioning all of this. Where was the outpouring of funding when black people were being gunned down by cops from West Coast organizations? Where has YCombinator been as our own impoverished African-Americans are getting slaughtered in the streets of Chicago? Wh…

Just because somebody or an organization failed to do something charitable in the past is no reason to criticize them for doing it in the future. I see this argument everywhere these days. Business change and their priorities change, just like people.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#358

Post by NOSHSHNACKERS »

muninn_ wrote: post #41

Although I think the American Civil Liberties Union is incredibly valuable and I'm glad they have a lot more money now to fight for the American people, I'm questioning all of this. Where was the outpouring of funding when black people were being gunned down by cops from West Coast organizations? Where has YCombinator been as our own impoverished African-Americans are getting slaughtered in the streets of Chicago? Wh…

Muninn_ You are obviously misinformed and looking to divert. I am grateful for your comment.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#359

Post by sidlls »

katm wrote: post #106
muninn_ wrote: post #41

Although I think the American Civil Liberties Union is incredibly valuable and I'm glad they have a lot more money now to fight for the American people, I'm questioning all of this. Where was the outpouring of funding when black people were being gunned down by cops from West Coast organizations? Where has YCombinator been as our own impoverished African-Americans are getting slaughtered in the streets of Chicago? Wh…

You can be cynical about us bringing in the ACLU, but in the words of Maya Angelou: “Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better.”

In that case, I fully expect to see continued activity on this front even after the next Democratic adminstration and congress continues the Bush-Obama-Trump programs that are (finally) meeting resistance.

I won't hold my breath waiting for that, though. Usually what happens is that when one's favored party regains power the criticism suddenly disappears.

Re: Welcome, ACLU

#360

Post by chimeracoder »

tptacek wrote: post #348
chimeracoder wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They happen to be in the spotlight at the moment due to the Trump immigration executive order, but it's not as though 100% of the funds raised by YC will go towards fighting the immigration ban. It will support their countless other ongoing legal battles as well On that note - do we actually know that the YC funds are generally available to the ACLU? Oftentimes when non-profits receive large donations, the donor sp…

The amount of money the ACLU would get as a consequence of being accepted into a YC batch is a triviality compared to the amount of money they pull in from direct fundraising. Presumably, the benefit to ACLU of being directly engaged with YC is acceleration of their technical and outreach work, and perhaps improved access to wealthy donors in Silicon Valley. Equally worth knowing: individual ACLU chapters receive fun…

> The amount of money the ACLU would get as a consequence of being accepted into a YC batch is a triviality compared to the amount of money they pull in from direct fundraising

Yes, I agree . I'm pretty sure the ACLU matched donation offers I saw flying around Twitter yesterday already exceed the amount YC gives to nonprofits.

I'm more just curious if YC specified their intended target with this decision, or if they decided to leave the allocation decisions up to the ACLU. My guess is the latter, because the nonprofits YC normally funds are much younger and smaller, but maybe YC had a specific goal in mind.

> Equally worth knowing: individual ACLU chapters receive funding from the national ACLU, but are also on the hook for raising some of their own funding.

That I did not know - thanks for mentioning this!

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