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Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

bbc.com

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Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#131

Post by Yhippa »

fusiongyro wrote: post #116

There's a local dealer who sells VWs and Mazdas. The Mazdas outsell VW 2:1, but they have 4x as many VW technicians. I had two VWs: a Jetta and a Passat. Both required an astonishing amount of maintenance compared to the Toyota Camry I had before. VW has really mastered the art of "this feels well-engineered" without actually being well-engineered. My current car is a Ford Flex and frankly I love it. It's not a perfe…

I've had friends who have owned VW's and I've heard the same things about them and German cars in general.

I purchased my first Mazda a few years ago and I'm shocked at how well-engineered it is, how easy it is to maintain it, and how much nicer the service experience is than it was for Honda and Acura.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#132

Post by closeparen »

chrisper wrote: post #110
p0larboy wrote: post #66

I had a Volkswagen Scirocco. That car looks nice and had a reasonable price range. But that car was the stuff of nightmares. Just google "scirocco dsg gearbox problems". I simply cannot imagine why a huge car manufacturer could produce such a faulty car. Apparently, scirocco is not the only model to be affected by this.

> I simply cannot imagine why a huge car manufacturer could produce such a faulty car. Sadly, American Car companies create lots of faulty cars as well. Not sure why.

It might be a good idea to start hoarding Toyotas, if you are so inclined, before the tariff erases the savings on maintenance and repair.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#133

Post by WillPostForFood »

ransom1538 wrote: post #124
refurb wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tax avoidance is cheating? I guess I better not max out my 401k this year for the tax advantage! That would be cheating!

No but if you take your 401k money - withdraw it, create Irish shell companies, then have your employer pay the Irish shells , then tell the government you are Irish not a us citizen, liquidate all us holdings -- all to avoid IRS withholdings. Wtf? Please try it let me know how HRBlock goes. Edit: under "do you have foreign accounts" check "no" as well. (Actually don't do any of this you will end up in federal prison…

It is kind of silly to blame Amazon for not paying sales tax. The legal obligation was on the buyer, not the seller, in out of state purchases. No company in Amazon's situation was paying sales tax.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#134

Post by WillPostForFood »

dgudkov wrote: post #106
pshposh wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the Toyota 86? 2-door, rear-wheel drive. Other than that I agree with you for the most part. edit: http://www.toyota.com/86/

It's not a real Toyota - it was designed and built by Subaru.

It was designed by Tetsuya Tada at Toyota. Toyota had a complete concept car they were showing before they asked Subaru to get involved. Subaru ended up contributing the engine, but the rest is largely Toyota. They are built by Subaru though.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#135

Post by sgift »

matt4077 wrote: post #104
gonzo41 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the logical conclusion when you allow corporations to be 'people' without the consequences of being a person. How do you send a company to jail? Its kinda of like that scene in fightclub where Edward Nortons character talks about the cost of doing a recall. The emissions scandal should have ended VW. Solution: Guillotine for corporate crime.

You missed the most important aspect of that scene in fight club: "If the profits are larger than the costs of expected settlements and fines". That means you just need to either the chances of being caught or the fines – preferably the first because low chances of being caught just invite delusional thinking ("I'm smarter than others") and people are pretty bad with evaluating probabilities not close to 0 or 1.

To catch more wrongdoing you need more oversight, which means more people checking on companies, which means bigger agencies. This is often frowned upon, because many people want a "lean government".

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#136

Post by Sacho »

gonzo41 wrote: post #127
Sacho wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would that gain you? Wouldnt the same capital holders pool their wealth into a newly minted corporation to continue exploiting the resources they have accrued? Are you going to seize the assets of the corporation and redistribute them? How is your proposed dissolution different from a fine big enough to bankrupt a company?

Just quickly on my phone before I run to grab the train. You dissolve the entity and sell the assests to pay back the costs of damage. The people left high and dry by the loss of investment get the signal that there is more risk in involving yourself in companies that can really stuff people over through negligence or greed I mean really after the damage that was done, you don't think companies like BP should still e…

> You dissolve the entity and sell the assests to pay back the costs of damage

VW could pay the damages in its particular case without dissolution. What would you do with the extra money after liquidating its assets? It seems like you're simply arguing for even bigger fines.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#137

Post by mulmen »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #134
dgudkov wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a real Toyota - it was designed and built by Subaru.

It was designed by Tetsuya Tada at Toyota. Toyota had a complete concept car they were showing before they asked Subaru to get involved. Subaru ended up contributing the engine, but the rest is largely Toyota. They are built by Subaru though.

The non-Subaru concept was the FT-HS which never made it into production. The Toyota 86 uses an Impreza chassis and engine. Mechanically it's a Subaru. AFAIK the Toyota/Scion versions may have a slightly different engine but it's still a Subaru boxer.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#138

Post by njharman »

bmmayer1 wrote: post #109
gonzo41 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the logical conclusion when you allow corporations to be 'people' without the consequences of being a person. How do you send a company to jail? Its kinda of like that scene in fightclub where Edward Nortons character talks about the cost of doing a recall. The emissions scandal should have ended VW. Solution: Guillotine for corporate crime.

Corporate personhood is a long standing legal principle stretching back at least 400 years to the first joint stock corporations. The creation of limited liability vehicles for investors to pool resources, govern large cooperatives of individuals, simplify complex transactions, and protect investments and intellectual property has led to unprecedented levels of wealth creation for nations and people, and is arguably…

Limited liability has nothing to do with personhood. Which is very recent and very specific. Personhood is not any of the things you listed, those are features of basic corporation without personhood. Corporations worked fine for several hundred years. Granting them the rights but not the responsibilities of humans was wholly unnecessary and a mistake.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#139

Post by dragonwriter »

njharman wrote: post #138
bmmayer1 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporate personhood is a long standing legal principle stretching back at least 400 years to the first joint stock corporations. The creation of limited liability vehicles for investors to pool resources, govern large cooperatives of individuals, simplify complex transactions, and protect investments and intellectual property has led to unprecedented levels of wealth creation for nations and people, and is arguably…

Limited liability has nothing to do with personhood. Which is very recent and very specific. Personhood is not any of the things you listed, those are features of basic corporation without personhood. Corporations worked fine for several hundred years. Granting them the rights but not the responsibilities of humans was wholly unnecessary and a mistake.

Corporations never existed without personhood; juridical personhood is a key factor was what historically distinguished corporations from earlier forms of business organization which did not create distinct legal persons.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#140

Post by hvidgaard »

Sacho wrote: post #136
gonzo41 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just quickly on my phone before I run to grab the train. You dissolve the entity and sell the assests to pay back the costs of damage. The people left high and dry by the loss of investment get the signal that there is more risk in involving yourself in companies that can really stuff people over through negligence or greed I mean really after the damage that was done, you don't think companies like BP should still e…

> You dissolve the entity and sell the assests to pay back the costs of damage VW could pay the damages in its particular case without dissolution. What would you do with the extra money after liquidating its assets? It seems like you're simply arguing for even bigger fines.

Not the parent.

If the company can pay for fines, fine. No need to dissolve them, but the leadership responsible still needs to face a judge. Just because you're part of a corporation, shouldn't mean you get to walk from crimes.

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