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Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

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Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#111
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am disappointed in Toyota's current offerings. Take a look at what is on the lot today and what was on the lot in 1997. 20 years ago you could pick up a world-class Supra or a proper Land Cruiser or a Tacoma or a Camry or Corolla that could practically be the last commuter car you ever need. All of them stubbornly reliable. many of the cars Toyota had on the lot in 1997 still sell for close to their retail price! T…

I have a 2011 Toyota Yaris I've been pretty happy with it. I went from a four door 1.6L engine car (2002 Kia Rio) to the three door 1.4L Yaris. At the time I purchased the Yaris I was 50/50 toss between it and a Mazda 3. I ended up getting offered a good deal of the Toyota so went with it, no regrets since then. I'm single and live in the city so fuel economy and ease of parking trumps everything else for me.

Yeah they make good commuter cars like your Yaris and the new Corollas have a lot of great features but take a look at what Toyota was building back in the 90s before they wanted to become the biggest in the world. They had a much more diverse offering with at least a few exciting if low volume cars.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#112
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am disappointed in Toyota's current offerings. Take a look at what is on the lot today and what was on the lot in 1997. 20 years ago you could pick up a world-class Supra or a proper Land Cruiser or a Tacoma or a Camry or Corolla that could practically be the last commuter car you ever need. All of them stubbornly reliable. many of the cars Toyota had on the lot in 1997 still sell for close to their retail price! T…

I have a 2011 Toyota Yaris I've been pretty happy with it. I went from a four door 1.6L engine car (2002 Kia Rio) to the three door 1.4L Yaris. At the time I purchased the Yaris I was 50/50 toss between it and a Mazda 3. I ended up getting offered a good deal of the Toyota so went with it, no regrets since then. I'm single and live in the city so fuel economy and ease of parking trumps everything else for me.

>fuel economy and ease of parking trumps everything else for me.

What about safety? I rented a Yaris once and felt very vulnerable. Maybe it depends on where you live.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#113
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one area where you might admire Chinese government then: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal#Cont... If you read the part that talks about criminal prosecutions, many top executives were put to death or received life imprisonment. It's up for debate whether this is 'good' or 'justice' because the economic causes that led to the problem are complex, but babies were literally being killed be…

They found scapegoats for sure, but not many are really confident the real crooks were caught, and more importantly, faith was never restored in the Chinese milk industry.

Not surprised. I'm also saddened that the whistle blower died under suspicious circumstances.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#114
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the logical conclusion when you allow corporations to be 'people' without the consequences of being a person. How do you send a company to jail? Its kinda of like that scene in fightclub where Edward Nortons character talks about the cost of doing a recall. The emissions scandal should have ended VW. Solution: Guillotine for corporate crime.

Corporate personhood is a long standing legal principle stretching back at least 400 years to the first joint stock corporations. The creation of limited liability vehicles for investors to pool resources, govern large cooperatives of individuals, simplify complex transactions, and protect investments and intellectual property has led to unprecedented levels of wealth creation for nations and people, and is arguably…

>though I hope you're joking about the guillotine

I read that remark as this: If corporations are people legally, there should be certain crimes that lead to their dissolution. I assumed this was the proposal: If a corporation does something evil enough, its leaders going to prison and paying a fine isn't enough, it should face the corporate guillotine which revokes its incorporation.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#115
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't dismissing the criticisms; in fact I tried to disclaim that. My point was that notwithstanding the valid criticisms, they appear to be producing cars that in my mind would appeal to consumers so it doesn't surprise me if they were seeing significant sales. Whether they're capable of doing so precisely because they violate those rules is beyond my knowledge. For the record, I absolutely do not work for VW or…

>>I wasn't dismissing the criticisms What you did was the definition of dismissing the criticisms. You bring them up then immediately downplay the issue and change the topic to your "comfortable, performant, nimble and all-round decent" experience, in the same sentence! You end with a criticism of a competitor's car, and close with "I can only say good things about the VW Polo". Your entire post was filled with fluff…

As I said, I would've liked to reword the original to say something along the lines of "Notwithstanding the valid criticisms about their cheating of emissions requirements..." and also clarified that the above experience I had explains why to me it's not surprising that consumers are buying more VWs. Unfortunately, I can't change the post, which is why I had to say it in the reply. The criticisms of VW are valid - their cheating of the emissions requirements is something that should be punished way more than it has been.

I closed out my post with the criticism of the Vauxhall to give contrast to my experience with two contemporary cars. I drive a '98 Camry at home, so I don't have experience with cars younger than ~20 years normally. This gave me a good chance to experience them and it highlighted how different the two vehicles were, especially since they were both hired out by Europcar as the same category of vehicle.

Also please note that I was trying to praise the vehicle, not mate a statement about VW themselves. Per the above, they were wrong for cheating emissions requirements. Regardless of whether it was achieved legitimately or not though, my post was trying to put into words why I find it unsurprising that many people are buying VW vehicles if the Polo was an example of what they're producing.

I said that I'm not sure whether their cheating of emissions is the reason why they can produce a compelling car, not whether it is an 'advantage'. It's undeniably an advantage - if nothing else, cheating on that helps to illegitimately sell cars to people who want 'greener' cars. What I am saying, however, is that I don't know if that translates to their ability to produce an all-round compelling car that appeals to a large market enough to explain significant increases in sales (i.e.: because it is the differentiator between a car with rubbish/good fuel efficiency, or rubbish/good performance). I simply don't know, which is why I said that.

When I post on HN, I consider whether my input could add to the discussion. The article was about VW seeing higher sales volumes than Toyota, yet the discussion was focused purely on their cheating of emissions requirements. I felt my comment could add to the discussion by providing one anecdote about my experience with their car and how, more generally, that might translate to why consumers are buying the vehicles.

The reality is that I can't come show you in person my boarding pass for my holiday there and my booking receipt from hiring the car. I can't show you my employment history or bank accounts showing no financial incentive to say what I said. There's no way I can convince you of any of it unless you decide to convince yourself that I'm not a shill by going through my post history or something, and I suspect you have no desire to do that whatsoever so there's simply nothing I can do short of trying to explain the rationale behind my post as my defence. The reason I'm trying to do that is because, per above, I legitimately try to contribute meaningful input to HN and so being called a lying shill runs counter to that.

edit: For what little it's worth, I didn't downvote you, though I just saw you have been. I think there's a valid place for you having called me out because you've done it fairly respectfully and some level of scepticism is always warranted. Certianly you made me explain myself which helps others who read it gain a better understanding of what I was trying to say (evidently badly) in my OP.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#116
There's a local dealer who sells VWs and Mazdas. The Mazdas outsell VW 2:1, but they have 4x as many VW technicians.

I had two VWs: a Jetta and a Passat. Both required an astonishing amount of maintenance compared to the Toyota Camry I had before. VW has really mastered the art of "this feels well-engineered" without actually being well-engineered.

My current car is a Ford Flex and frankly I love it. It's not a perfect car but so far so good. It has the same solid feel as the VWs did. I hope it turns out to be more true. I wish the rest of Ford's cars felt as good as the Flex. Maybe they do, but I didn't want to try a Fiesta or a Taurus.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#117

One thing learned from: Volkswagen,airbnb,google,amazon,uber,facebook is to CHEAT. Illegal hotels, copyright infringement, skipping sales tax, fake cabs,profiting on personal data.. and now, illegal emission testing.

If you own a VW/Seat/Skoda/Audi diesel car in US, you can give your car back and get your money. In EU, VW promises to fix the car by adding a 5cent placebo plastic pipe and a software update which lowers the performance and increases the diesel consumption (physics after all). In US VW has to pay billions, in EU VW has to pay nothing to speak of. Of course the German government is involved in this company as shareholder and probably knew about the cheating and probably the EU laws for diesel were altered some years ago because of this company. One would assume a more strict law enforcement that split that company into separate smaller VW, Sear, Skoda and Audi companies and disallow them to use that old Audi Diesel engine from the 1980s that causes the troubles. And one would assume VW has to be fine and pay to each state were the poisoned the inhabitants with their diesel fume. And oe would assume that TUV or whoever certified and tested the cars get fined as well.

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Corporate personhood is a long standing legal principle stretching back at least 400 years to the first joint stock corporations. The creation of limited liability vehicles for investors to pool resources, govern large cooperatives of individuals, simplify complex transactions, and protect investments and intellectual property has led to unprecedented levels of wealth creation for nations and people, and is arguably…

>though I hope you're joking about the guillotine I read that remark as this: If corporations are people legally, there should be certain crimes that lead to their dissolution. I assumed this was the proposal: If a corporation does something evil enough, its leaders going to prison and paying a fine isn't enough, it should face the corporate guillotine which revokes its incorporation.

What would that gain you? Wouldnt the same capital holders pool their wealth into a newly minted corporation to continue exploiting the resources they have accrued?

Are you going to seize the assets of the corporation and redistribute them? How is your proposed dissolution different from a fine big enough to bankrupt a company?

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#119

I had a Volkswagen Scirocco. That car looks nice and had a reasonable price range. But that car was the stuff of nightmares. Just google "scirocco dsg gearbox problems". I simply cannot imagine why a huge car manufacturer could produce such a faulty car. Apparently, scirocco is not the only model to be affected by this.

> I simply cannot imagine why a huge car manufacturer could produce such a faulty car. Sadly, American Car companies create lots of faulty cars as well. Not sure why.

Because cars are hard to make?

Re: Volkswagen overtakes Toyota as the world's biggest carmaker

#120
post #14

One thing learned from: Volkswagen,airbnb,google,amazon,uber,facebook is to CHEAT. Illegal hotels, copyright infringement, skipping sales tax, fake cabs,profiting on personal data.. and now, illegal emission testing.

This is the logical conclusion when you allow corporations to be 'people' without the consequences of being a person. How do you send a company to jail? Its kinda of like that scene in fightclub where Edward Nortons character talks about the cost of doing a recall. The emissions scandal should have ended VW. Solution: Guillotine for corporate crime.

It's easy to talk about a corporate death penalty, but that's not really in the interest of society.

Take Arthur Andersen. After the Enron scandal, Arthur Andersen was basically split up and absorbed into the other accounting firms, especially Deloitte and EY. Are we really better off having the Big Four accounting firms instead of the Big Five? I'd say we need more competition, not less.

Not to mention the many innocent parties around the world who lost out due to the actions of a few.

I'd be in favour of sanctions that target those responsible and the chain upwards to the top, rather than a business as a whole. Even clawbacks of past bonuses, although that would be logistically very difficult.

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