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Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

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Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#261
post #256

Trump is playing "divide and conquer". Make every action benefit some segment of people, and sow discord among your opponents. That said, as a highly skilled, highly paid H1B person at one of those top companies who probably needs to wait 5 more years to get a green card by virtue of being born in the "wrong" country, I completely agree that there are a lot of things broken in the current system. I just don't know if…

H1B reform has been talked about for going on a decade now.

The fact that Trump wants to tackle this in no way represents a "divide and conquer" tactic.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#262
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good for software developers. Not so much for large companies that want to drive down salaries through indentured servitude (H1B).

No it's not that good for software developers or anyone really. Many of those hired on H1B are doing roles for which they simply can't get enough local talent. And so all that is going to happen is that companies are going to shift entire projects offshore or simply not take on as many projects. There does need to be reform. But frankly given the chaotic manner in which the Trump administration is crafting and implem…

>Many of those hired on H1B are doing roles for which they simply can't get enough local talent

This is the scam they want you to believe, but it's being abused to simply keep wages low.

It's very easy to post fake job ads to make it seem like "you can't find someone" for the job, and there are plenty of lawyers who will help you get around those loopholes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because the vast majority are doing support tickets stuck in a support center at a company like South California Edison, Verizon or Dow Chemical working with Enterprise Software like Oracle, Informatica, SAP etc. They are four to a room in an apartment in Minnesota where they send 3/4 of their paycheck back to India to support their family. In your mind, you are thinking of the 10-15% working in Silicon Valley as cod…

And if wages increased? I'm going to disregard those with families, it's hard for anyone to compete with dependents. Also, are you talking about Americans, or workers on visas? It sounds like the latter, but I was talking about the former, i.e. American IT workers can keep wages/conditions up by choosing startups if things start to drop, in a way I doubt agriculture workers could.

Your mention of "dependents" made me smile.

I'm from Ghana, and from what I understand Ghana and a lot of other countries with these immigrants share the common theme that when people say they're "supporting their family/people back home", "family" is not the meaning that the IRS gives for a dependent, it's very literally everyone who's back home.

For example, decades after moving to the US parents still support dozens of family members back home, not just siblings, but their own parents, cousins, nephews, even people from the same village who aren't necessarily family. Of course on the flip side those are the people who rally together to get them to the US (at least that's how it was for my parents and some other family I've known). It's a support system where people who come to the US are then able to fund things like education that will bring the next generation closer to the standard of living they left to the US for in the first place.

I suspect to workers supporting "family" in that position who don't even have financial security for themselves wouldn't even dream of something like packing it all up living out of a van and bootstrapping their dream startup. In all the years it took my parents years to even get to something considered financially secure, they still had people counting on them back home, I can only imagine the position of those counting someone who just got here on a visa, often at considerable cost relative to what wages are where they come from, meaning they needed help from family.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#264

I love HN. Trump hating on Iranians and Mexicans. HN: "I hate Trump, he's so mean to immigrants. And avocado prices will go up! ::angry face:: Trump hating on Indians who took our jobs! HN: "Protectionism for me too? ::swoons::"

Yeah, because HN is one person...

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#265
If you read the entire article, you can see that President Trump is on the side of the American IT worker and President Obama was working against Americans by allowing more immigrants to work here outside the legal H1-B Visa system through an executive order.

People seem to think that Trump is the bad guy and Obama the good guy, but then how do you justify Obamas actions? Trump is right. Obama is wrong.

It was Trump who spoke out against Disney of Florida's abuse of H1-B Visas displacing 250 American IT workers. Except for Sanders and Trump all of the other candidates were for replacing American IT workers with immigrants and depressing American IT worker wages.

"This is an argument which Trump has weighed in on in the past and a point of contention between the President Elect and Barack Obama. It was almost one year ago when Obama raised eyebrows by issuing an executive order which would allow these H-1B visa holders to receive green cards and stay in the country even if their employment was terminated. This led observers to note that he was essentially corrupting the entire purpose of the H-1B program and overload existing immigration quotas. (Numbers USA)"

http://hotair.com/archives/2016/12/19/disney-lawsuit-may-dra...

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#266
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many of those hired on H1B are doing roles for which they simply can't get local talent So it's not just a way to get regular software developers at a cheap price? OK let's raise the minimum salary requirement for H1B visas to $120k.

Or maybe something around the average software engineer pay scale of $80,000? What about student interns?

Student interns stay on whatever student visa they were on.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#267
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That you think fast food is much different from no food or that the buses the impoverished here ride are "safe" (or always air conditioned, for that matter) leads me to believe you haven't experienced poverty in America. I have. It really tweaks me when people compare poverty in America favorably to poverty elsewhere.

Why do you think one needs to experience poverty to make accurate claims about it? Like it or not, the statistics show that poor Americans don't work very much, they are well fed, and they have living conditions that are not drastically different from the rich and are much better than most of the world. Feel free to try and prove me wrong. But I'm willing to gamble that all you've got is anecdotes, no stats.

feel free to links some of those statistics.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American = has citizenship. Conferred by the very real US citizenship and immigration service. That isn't a particularly unclear definition.

The US has had clear definitions of race in the past - e.g. "1/16 or more". If we adopt such a definition, will you drop your objections to legalized racism? If not, why not? It's ok, we've discussed this before. I don't expect anything other than evasion of the core philosophical issue.

The point I made very clearly before is the same as the one I made now.

If you are a US citizen, subject to US laws enforced by the very real institution of the US government which you live under, the US government owes you a living.

If you are, say, a Mongolian citizen, the US government doesn't owe you a living.

Your opinion was apparently that the US owes Mongolian citizens the same thing it owes US citizens, because... reasons.

If you are of any particular race that is an irrelevance. An irrelevance you keep bringing up because you are obsessed with race to a point that is frankly disturbing.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#269
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many of those hired on H1B are doing roles for which they simply can't get enough local talent. I can only speak to my experience. At my current employer we have about 60-70% H1Bs in my department (development). Even more in QA. And they aren't particularly talented. After reviewing the public information though, they are getting paid 50% of what I am. So they are living with multiple other visa workers in one apar…

I am not working at the Big 4, am on H-1B, and am a hiring manager at an SV firm. When I hire an H-1B it is not about the money. Not challenging your experience, but pointing out that there are other possibilities also.

Well, yes. I mean at the Big 4 (and really, this applies to any large, cutting-edge company: Twitter, Oracle, etc.) they do reach out of the US to find great talent for higher up positions. But they also abuse the visa process for lower wages in lower positions.

Lots of other companies without hype just want lower wage workers. I figure these are the majority.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that many people thought they needed to take Trump's plans & pronouncements metaphorically when they voted for him. People who worked for him even http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/trump-symbolically-ant... The problem more generally with that is that once you give that much power up with out an expiration date it will be very hard to restore back to a moderate position. And even the proponents of…

I don't think the policy itself is good either, I'm just saying that the idea of implementing policy now, even if it has bugs, might be preferable to letting the perfect be the enemy of the good to the point where we do nothing about problems - even if they are merely imaginary problems. As for electing someone because you don't believe they will follow through on their campaign promises, only to be disappointed when…

It sounds like we are almost entirely in agreement :D I just think this order should be the new textbook example on why move fast and break things should not be executive policy.
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