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Make America Hate Again

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Re: Make America Hate Again

#231
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do you deal with people that refuse to argue with logic and facts? This is a good point, and circles back to the original thought in this thread. When words are unclear, how can you discuss logic and facts? People don't have the patience (nor should they) to sit down and cooperatively define dozens of key terms each time they have a meaningful discussion about the direction of society, culture, and government.…

Why shouldn't people have the patience to define their language before having a discussion? Your last line seems to indicate that you think having unchanged definitions to words is a good thing. My wife and I define things to each other frequently. We often are saying the same things but confusing each others meanings because of wording.

> Why shouldn't people have the patience to define their language before having a discussion?

Most people aren't practiced in keeping sets of definitions in mind that vary from context to context.

You're also opening the (aspirationally meaningful) conversation with somewhat involved semantic discussion and debate.

"Now that we've labored over the meanings of 'race', 'diversity', and 'equality' for fifteen minutes and invented three new terms to encompass the meanings of 'racism' that are relevant here, tell me how the latest executive order might end up exposing your family to more of racism-type-B."

Re: Make America Hate Again

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we are not talking about you. We are talking about people who went around, even here on HN, telling that half the American population were dumb racist haters because they either voted Trump or IIRC just because they respected the election.

If you voted for Trump you are, at the very least, okay with electing a racist, sexist, xenophobic authoritarian. And half the American population did not vote for Trump.

I'm not a bigot. I just caucus with bigots!

Re: Make America Hate Again

#233
post #210

Regardless of how one feels about the order itself, the fact is, courts are ordering it temporarily suspended, and the Trump administration is ignoring court orders. Legislators are going to airports to see that travelers arriving in their district and being detained are allowed access to counsel, and they're not allowed to meet with the detainees. This is a constitutional crisis. This is not about the right or wrong…

It's a complex set of events, but America is overdue for some stronger checks on the executive branch.

I think it's also fair to say the executive branch has unique power in security affairs that the judicial branch can overstep its authority in.

I'm not supporting these actions, here. I might go either way on them, honestly, but it's hard for me to get too worked up about constitutional crises now given all the executive actions that have been largely accepted as normal over the last sixteen years or so.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#234

The reason this is more HN-relevant than your average article on pure American politics is the top comment. Someone suggested to a well-known VC that he could do something about the fact that software he invests in powers the comments on Breitbart, and he said "on it". Something like 5% of Breitbart visits currently come through Disqus. Removing Disqus integration from Breitbart would be a remarkable use of tech indu…

> Removing Disqus integration from Breitbart would be a remarkable use of tech industry tools for political activism. I'm not sure more fracturing of American political discourse would be a beneficial form of 'activism'.

Actual fracturing wouldn't necessarily be in his interest, but I guess we can assume that's not the goal anyway. The goal would have to be silencing the social media presence of the right, a return to the status quo ante of public discourse.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#235

The reason this is more HN-relevant than your average article on pure American politics is the top comment. Someone suggested to a well-known VC that he could do something about the fact that software he invests in powers the comments on Breitbart, and he said "on it". Something like 5% of Breitbart visits currently come through Disqus. Removing Disqus integration from Breitbart would be a remarkable use of tech indu…

The VC clarified in a later comment that he wouldn't ask Discus to drop Breitbart, but that he wants to have a talk with Discus.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#236

The reason this is more HN-relevant than your average article on pure American politics is the top comment. Someone suggested to a well-known VC that he could do something about the fact that software he invests in powers the comments on Breitbart, and he said "on it". Something like 5% of Breitbart visits currently come through Disqus. Removing Disqus integration from Breitbart would be a remarkable use of tech indu…

[deleted]

Re: Make America Hate Again

#237
We are having the wrong discussions. I hoped this community could be a place to have the better ones.

First, I didn't vote for Tump, and am not a fan. I also am not a fan of Clinton.

The brief versions of the points are as follows.

- The executive branch has aggregated too much power, and not enough people are talking about the amount of chaos one person can do to the country.

- Trump has gone to war with the media, and the media is fighting back by making everything "the worst thing ever". This is going to lead to crisis fatigue.

- The country, a significant portion of it, has wanted to break up the calcification that has formed in our government. Due to the machinations of our two party system, Trump was the only option to vote for that on election day.

Longer Form:

There has been a conversation in this country that the government has ceased listening to, or being concerned with the population at large. There was a study that hit the front page here at least once. There is also a feeling in a significant portion of the population that the country is going the wrong direction.

The duopoly that has strangled our elections needs to be broken up. Both parties have ways to try and nudge certain types of candidates through their primaries. Not for conspiratorial reasons, but to try and have the best chance to win the elections. In both parties there were dark horse candidates that broke through, gathering their strength from disenfranchised people who wanted something other than the status quo. If Sanders was president, the right would be losing their minds as bad or worse than the left is. They accused President Obama of being a socialist who wanted to make America the next "insert country that tried socialism and wound up with an autocrat". Sanders is a self proclaimed Democratic Socialist with the outspoken goal of pushing the country to the left.

Two parties cannot represent the spectrum of beliefs and preferences that exist within the country, and the things that the two parties agree on (spying, war, trade, giving a pass to wall street) has made the majority of the country feel that they have lost their voice.

On election day there were only two choices to pick from. The status quo, and Donald Trump. I know a lot of people who didn't like trump, but voted for him anyway. Trump was a rock they could throw at the government.

The best thing I can hope for from the Trump Presidency is that the republican party splits, and the Democrats follow suit.

Trump believes in bullying his way through things, and holding nothing back. He's going to use every power that congress has ceded to the executive office to get his way. Trump is the first president in my lifetime who is systematically going through his campaign promises, and doing what he can to force them to fruition.

The executive office has far too much power, and needs to be brought into check. We are supposed to have 3 branches of government with checks and balances. The branch that's supposed to pass the laws has two house so that the people's representative's have the most power, as well as an internal check system.

Congress gave the executive office the ability to spy on Americans, if those Americans were communicating with foreign targets of interest.

President Bush signed an order making it okay to spy on all Americans. The excuse was it wasn't being looked at, or used for domestic issues.

President Obama signed in order allowing that data collected without cause or warrant to be passed to all of the other domestic agencies (FBI, DEA, IRS, etc.)

This is far too much power for a single person to have. These types of laws need to be discussed and voted upon by our representatives before being put into action. The president is not a King, his word is not law.

My opinion is that the media has a bone to pick with Trump, and is highlighting everything he does in the extreme negative. If a democrat had won the media leaning right would be doing the same. We no longer get any context with the our news. We get headlines and highlights, but never any backing information on how things got to that point. The media has been reduced to supporting one side or the other and as a result there is no longer any room to say "I was wrong", "They other side has a good idea", "Let's here the facts and opinions of experts and debate the issue".

My concern is our country is too entrenched in the us vs them mentality that the duopoly has caused. We will not be able to make adjustments to fix the issue and our nation will barrel into the same wall that so many nations throughout history have crashed into.

How can we break up the political parties to allow for more options during an election?

How can rein in the overreaching powers of the executive office?

How can we drive more intellectual debate that provides some context on the current issues into the news organizations?

Thanks for reading

Re: Make America Hate Again

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I flagged because it accomplishes nothing but open up yet another venue for people on both sides to argue and complain. It doesn't make any argument to change, or suggest solutions, or otherwise advocate civil discourse other than "Yeah, I agree!" or "Yeah, I disagree!"

That seems like a very selfish (and petty) response. You can just ignore it, you know.

The purpose of flagging is to indicate that a story does not belong on HN. I think I've explained why I feel this is particularly a low-quality submission, and flagged accordingly.

I don't see how you can think that is selfish or petty, unless you think having yet another thread to just complain in is actually helping anyone.

Either way, I don't want to get into an argument here (obviously), so I'll pop out of this thread now and leave my flag behind. If people want to vouch it out, that's fine too.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#239
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quick question: Can babies be racist? I ask because after seeing babies being defined as racist, I have no idea what racism means.

What do you mean by "racist"? If you mean discriminating based on race, then of course, everybody is racist. Haven't you seen those videos of babies that cry the first time they encounter a face of a different color?

But if everyone is racist, then it's not a descriptive property. It's like saying everyone is human.

I believe racist used to mean someone strongly racially biased. But now its used to mean, has some amount of racial bias, which is non-descript.

Re: Make America Hate Again

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. I'm told I'm racist because I think blacks and whites are interchangeable, and because I don't care about one over the other. I'm told I'm racist for thinking the opposite. I'm told it's racist to discriminate on the basis of race. I'm also told it's racist NOT to do so. The closest principle I can find that predicts who is considered a racist is "republican = racist". Can you provide a clear definition of racism…

you make a lot of great points that call back to one central concept: the liberal idea of "racism" is multifaceted and constantly shifting to be more inclusive. understanding what "racism" is requires you to keep up with the thought development that's ongoing, and frankly it's too much work for almost everyone to do so. perhaps a different perspective will be useful, and i'm just making this up as i go, so bear with…

Your example doesn't match up with reality. In your example, one group arbitrarily starts out disadvantaged. In the real world, (let's say United States) there was no arbitrariness. White folk, in aggregate, set up a system to massively redistribute resources from black folk to white folk, causing horrifying suffering in the process. You can't just ignore this and start your scenario with the slate wiped clean.
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