I have a question to tech companies CEOs, who make so much noise about Trump latest executive order.
If you really care that much about Muslim countries then explain to me: why the PhD brain drain is so good for these countries?
Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech
191–200 of 371 posts
Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech
#192Earlier quoted context omitted.
Reciprocity. People you have fewer bonds/relationships with are less likely to reciprocate, and more likely to compete. > a tiny pool of people Are you talking about the US (dev) population?
This assumes that shared nationality is going to make for stronger bonds. The way things are going, the opposite might be true.
> The way things are going, the opposite might be true
like all those celebs that threatened to leave the US?
Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech
#193Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why assume a specialized job "won't be filled", but a job were "the exact same package the immigrant would have been on" is offered will? I believe H1B visas are currently used to get workers who accept lower-than-average wages; Hence the same jobs offered to non H1B workers at that level won't be attractive.
H-1B data is public. You can go see what Google, Apple, Amazon et al are paying their H-1B workers. It's no different from what any American worker would get for the same positions.
Can you see what hours those workers are working?
But in any case:
> It's no different from what any American worker would get for the same positions
It's what Americans might get if they accepted the positions, but it isn't necessarily what they'd have to offer to get Americans to accept those positions; And if supply fell, but not demand, [make better offers is] what they'd have to do.
Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech
#194Earlier quoted context omitted.
Maybe. Here's the thing. Think about this as an MVP slapped together in a weekend, about to hit the biggest batch of software testers around. They're going to find show stopping bugs. And every one of those bugs is going to be someone's life, uprooted. Visa allocation changes _going_forward_ are certainly a reasonable thing. Fully within the realm of policy. But I'm going to bet that these changes are going to be of…
That has some huge problems which we've all seen this weekend, but in the long run, is that really worse than the old style of decades of inaction and debate topped off by an ineffectual bill that does nothing? It's pretty similar to the disruption in the tech industry. "What do you mean you deploy bugs to production and then fix them after end users report them? Haven't you heard of QA?!!"
The difference is bugs in the current ad-tech darling or "uber for tindr dogs" won't ruin people's lives. There are good reasons why most professions (and even most difficult software) can't act as flippantly as "test it in prod".
Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech
#195Earlier quoted context omitted.
I live in SF and hate how glibly techies talk about secession. It may be because I grew up in the south and it's part of our history but techies seem to forget that the bloodiest US conflict in history was to prevent this very thing. To even entertain the idea that secession would not result in a mass amounts of destruction death exemplifies the Bay area bubble mentality.
Eh, it's a fun thing to think about, especially knowing it will never happen. Texas fantasizes about it all the time. Every few months there's some kind of map being posted here about how to split the US into different countries or re-draw the state borders or some other fantasy map. It's just a fun daydream. I live in Michigan and several times we've had people from the Upper Peninsula try to get support for them to…
Its symbolic of not playing well with others and being bigoted against their view of the rest of the country. See: Texas
Seriously, it may be all in fun, but it paints a sad message about the perceptions of people who participate.
Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech
#196Earlier quoted context omitted.
Good for software developers. Not so much for large companies that want to drive down salaries through indentured servitude (H1B).
No it's not that good for software developers or anyone really. Many of those hired on H1B are doing roles for which they simply can't get enough local talent. And so all that is going to happen is that companies are going to shift entire projects offshore or simply not take on as many projects. There does need to be reform. But frankly given the chaotic manner in which the Trump administration is crafting and implem…
> Many of those hired on H1B are doing roles for which they simply can't get enough local talent.
I can only speak to my experience. At my current employer we have about 60-70% H1Bs in my department (development). Even more in QA. And they aren't particularly talented. After reviewing the public information though, they are getting paid 50% of what I am.
So they are living with multiple other visa workers in one apartment, can barely afford repairs to their old cars, etc.
It'd be great if the wages were more equalized. It's really not about talent at anywhere but the big 4. It's about money.
Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech
#197I'm all for reform but an executive order? Something on this scale needs to go through Congress first.
I'm pretty sure, Trump is using game theory to push his orders first, and use the momentum to push it through congress. He's openly made hostile comments even up to yesterday about leading republicans.
Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech
#198Earlier quoted context omitted.
We are discussing hiring local workers, not outsourcing. The local workers just happen to be brown and born in a different place. The money will still be spent in your own economy. The choices are threefold: My preferred scheme (1): Low income taxpayers keep $30k and spend it themselves. Government pays for $70k from lowest bidding software engineer (possibly an Indian). Fergie's preferred scheme (2): Low income taxp…
> In both cases, money is transferred from taxpayers to high income colocated workers who will presumably spend it in the economy. Also, you're ignoring the national security implications of the thing. We cannot afford to be dependent on a foreign country for high tech skills. That's one reason why protectionism makes sense. As a country, we're willing to pay extra for certain basic manufacturing/services to stay in…
That's both literally and figuratively backwards.
You're describing a scenario where the relationship between the countries becomes so hostile that we have to worry about what happens if one of us cuts off the flow of talent. But what we should really care about is making the flow of talent so voluminous and indispensable to both nations that relations cannot deteriorate to that point. That's real national security.
Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech
#199Earlier quoted context omitted.
That has some huge problems which we've all seen this weekend, but in the long run, is that really worse than the old style of decades of inaction and debate topped off by an ineffectual bill that does nothing? It's pretty similar to the disruption in the tech industry. "What do you mean you deploy bugs to production and then fix them after end users report them? Haven't you heard of QA?!!"
The difference is bugs in the current ad-tech darling or "uber for tindr dogs" won't ruin people's lives. There are good reasons why most professions (and even most difficult software) can't act as flippantly as "test it in prod".
That's not true at all. Most tech companies, like uber or tindr, are fundamentally aimed at ruining certain people's lives. And even when it's not intentional, it still happens, whether it's a bug that is effectively slander without a guilty party to bring suit against, an ad that infects you with malware that destroys your life's work, or just people being people.
Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech
#200I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that this may not be an altogether bad thing. From the article: "The foreign work visas were originally established to help U.S. companies recruit from abroad when they couldn’t find qualified local workers. But in recent years, there have been allegations the programs have been abused to bring in cheaper workers from overseas to fill jobs that otherwise may go to Americans…
When companies like Tata are fulfilling government contracts, they _should_ be filling those positions with local labour at local rates. Here's an alternate proposal. Suppose it would cost $70k for the wrong type of people to provide labor, and $100k for the right type of person to provide labor. Lets continue having labor sold by the lowest cost provider. But then lets engage in direct wealth transfers; we'll have t…
There's a difference between using tax payer money to pay people in that country, vs paying outsourced labor somewhere in another country.