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Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

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Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#161

Post by ajeet_dhaliwal »

jamesrcole wrote: post #26
ajeet_dhaliwal wrote: post #8

I don't live in the USA currently but I have worked there before on a visa and I think the current system does require some sort of an overhaul. The current way of doing things is great for some companies and for customers who want to save money on IT services but I believe it does undermine wages (for Americans and others) and being on a visa tied to a company just opens up foreign developers to abuse (not the horri…

> If the overhaul is even worse than what they have now then the rest of the world should stop moaning and treat this like an opportunity It's not only about what non-US people think about it. Whatever happens effects Americans, through the effects on the U.S. economy. It effects potential immigrants. And it effects the rest of the world through its effects on the global economy. I don't live in the US, I don't have…

I care too, I'm just suggesting there's not much to gain for non-Americans with complaining and that if the new policy is worse (we don't know if it will be yet) to take it as an opportunity to do something constructive.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#162

Post by ihsw »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #113

I love HN. Trump hating on Iranians and Mexicans. HN: "I hate Trump, he's so mean to immigrants. And avocado prices will go up! ::angry face:: Trump hating on Indians who took our jobs! HN: "Protectionism for me too? ::swoons::"

There's nothing wrong with this.

It was always about protecting our interests.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#163

Post by angry_octet »

hocuspocus wrote: post #25
LAMike wrote: post #13

Any guess on how much will salaries for developers will rise after this move?

I don't think companies that outsource their IT to Infosys, Tata and the like, will suddenly be willing to pay more.

The clients all bargain for the best deal in the market. If costs go up across the board they will have no option, if they want to stick with outsourcing. Outsourcing has its own peculiar costs, the market may evolve.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#164

Post by battlebot »

gutnor wrote: post #126
fergie wrote: post #45

I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that this may not be an altogether bad thing. From the article: "The foreign work visas were originally established to help U.S. companies recruit from abroad when they couldn’t find qualified local workers. But in recent years, there have been allegations the programs have been abused to bring in cheaper workers from overseas to fill jobs that otherwise may go to Americans…

It may be good overall, but not necessarily for the US worker in particular. The thing is, tech worker market is global and large companies always have the choice to outsource plain and simple. The H-1B visa trick is a win-win between foreign worker and local companies (loss/draw for local worker and loss for foreign companies). Local companies get locked-in resources in a friendly timezone, foreign worker get US exp…

How did you get "higher than average salary?" All the H1Bs I have known, and I have worked with hundreds of them over the years, have all been underpaid compared to market rates. Some were outright exploited by ridiculous middle man consulting arrangements consisting of multiple levels taking a percentage of the hourly from the actual workers.

I have nothing against foreign workers, but if they are going to be allowed to work in the states they should be paid market rate or above. I consider this protectionism for my own livelihood and those of my US-citizen colleagues. The typical bill rate for software development work has not risen since 2000. Think about that.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#165

Post by yorwba »

DarkKomunalec wrote: post #152
yummyfajitas wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that case, I suppose it's reasonable for a historically white suburb (with all white owners) to create rules for themselves that keep blacks out? That way, a municipality reduces to property. Should not the owners of property be free to manage it in their own favor?

It is not. Nothing in the thought experiment implies the laws of the country are not superior to those of the municipality. And as those laws require the country to treat all its citizens equaly and/or explicitly forbid discrimination, a municiaplity could not legally create such rules. This is not a hypothetical - the collective ownership way of thinking applies just fine to the US, where such discrimination was rul…

Sure, but why stop the collective ownership at the border? Why not have everyone have a share of the whole world?

What is the fundamental difference that makes "municipality : country" nonanalogous to "country : world"?

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#166

Post by supercanuck »

Chris2048 wrote: post #149
sidlls wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just "Americans are lazy and entitled" written differently. We see similar arguments in the agriculture sector, where a different price dynamic exists. The difference is in the world of tech companies can actually afford to pay more because there isn't a horde of Americans who want the tech equivalent of dirt-cheap food keeping prices down. Americans actually have a very strong affinity for authority. Most wi…

> This is just "Americans are lazy and entitled" written differently No it isn't. It's not "lazy" to insist on working contracted hours. Americans are entitled to choose their workplace, and leave if it's bullshit; Having the economic success to be able to do this is another thing - that used to be handled through unions. > We see similar arguments in the agriculture sector It not the same argument, but in any case;…

I guarantee you, the Infosys Support Analysts at my company do not have the option of creating a "startup" any more than a plantation worker can start a plantation.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#168

Post by freehunter »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #113

I love HN. Trump hating on Iranians and Mexicans. HN: "I hate Trump, he's so mean to immigrants. And avocado prices will go up! ::angry face:: Trump hating on Indians who took our jobs! HN: "Protectionism for me too? ::swoons::"

Well that's not even remotely the same thing.

Trump hating on Iranians for no good reason. Trump hating on Mexicans who are here legally or aren't even in the country (the whole "Mexicans are rapists, but I'm sure there's some good ones" comment). Versus Trump changing immigration policy to balance foreign and domestic workers, where it's heavily tipped to foreign workers right now.

He's not building a wall to keep out Indians, he's not arresting them at airports when they have a green card, his plan is to just not issue as many visas, and put tighter restrictions on the people he gives visas to.

That's not "hating on" anyone. There are lots of reasons to oppose Trump, but this isn't one of them. The H1B visa system could use some work, and it's getting that work.

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#169

Post by adharmad »

battlebot wrote: post #164
gutnor wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may be good overall, but not necessarily for the US worker in particular. The thing is, tech worker market is global and large companies always have the choice to outsource plain and simple. The H-1B visa trick is a win-win between foreign worker and local companies (loss/draw for local worker and loss for foreign companies). Local companies get locked-in resources in a friendly timezone, foreign worker get US exp…

How did you get "higher than average salary?" All the H1Bs I have known, and I have worked with hundreds of them over the years, have all been underpaid compared to market rates. Some were outright exploited by ridiculous middle man consulting arrangements consisting of multiple levels taking a percentage of the hourly from the actual workers. I have nothing against foreign workers, but if they are going to be allowe…

I think he meant "higher salaries than they would make at home".

Re: Trump’s Next Move on Immigration to Hit Closer to Home for Tech

#170

Post by pessimizer »

croon wrote: post #158
tobltobs wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trumpists can: “This is the United States government. First of all, you never have to default because you print the money, I hate to tell you, OK?”

Before people dismiss this, it is an actual Trump quote.

It is also completely true.
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