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Tripling Down Against USA Conference Hosting

robert.ocallahan.org

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Re: Tripling Down Against USA Conference Hosting

#61

Post by ldp01 »

Noseshine wrote: post #49
NTDF9 wrote: post #43

This is a great opportunity for Canadian, Australian and top European universities to step up their game. Some universities in these regions have solid reputations but lacked the star-power of top US univs. Hosting a few ACM conferences will shoot them on top of global map. Just checked, ACM is already on it: https://www.acm.org/conferences

Do universities that don't have to rely on the money they get form international students have the same incentives as US universities? From what I read that's a major consideration for US universities why they want to attract foreign students. For German universities that would only be of marginal concern, even if/when they take some money from foreign students it's just pocket change and not nearly enough to finance…

It's a similar situation for Australian universities. Foreign students are considered a major cash cow.

Re: Tripling Down Against USA Conference Hosting

#62

Post by atomwaffel »

mirimir wrote: post #12
noonespecial wrote: post #2

Just the first ripples against the shore of what I expect to be a tsunami of unexpected consequences. Seems like a golden opportunity for another country to step up and become the "conference center of the world". I'd LOL extra hard if it turned out to be Mexico.

Spain makes the most sense. Geographically, more or less. And economically too, I think.

I was thinking of Spain too. I went to a conference in Madrid last year and was pleasantly surprised by how many people there were from Spanish-speaking Latin America, far more than I usually see at conferences. At the same time, it's easy enough to get to for most of Europe and not too far from North America either.

Then again, I'm sure it's a nightmare for people from Oceania. Our planet is really inconvenient in that regard, what with being round and all…

Re: Tripling Down Against USA Conference Hosting

#63

Post by Theodores »

cperciva wrote: post #9
noonespecial wrote: post #2

Just the first ripples against the shore of what I expect to be a tsunami of unexpected consequences. Seems like a golden opportunity for another country to step up and become the "conference center of the world". I'd LOL extra hard if it turned out to be Mexico.

Seems like a golden opportunity for another country to step up and become the "conference center of the world". I'd LOL extra hard if it turned out to be Mexico. Can I suggest Canada for this purpose? We're a cheaper conference destination than the USA, Europe, or Japan; have a fluently English-speaking population anywhere conferences would be held (most people in Montreal are bilingual); have good infrastructure; an…

Let the market decide. There are conferences and trade shows for everything and anything all the time, all over the world. Take your favourite programming thing, there may be some meet up in your local town, it may be just a couple of people, not exactly a 'conference'. You might not be able to go to the big conference in Las Vegas (or wherever) but the conference in Berlin (or wherever) might be the one to attend this year anyway.

There is money in conferences and, if the USA wants to make itself as attractive as North Korea for foreign visitors, then the 'second tier' conferences held elsewhere will become the more important events to attend for non-Americans.

I think this is progress in a way, too many industries have some big U.S. trade show event as the focal point of the year and it is a long way to go to get new customers from your own country/town.

Re: Tripling Down Against USA Conference Hosting

#64

Post by adrianN »

lkrubner wrote: post #53
ryandamm wrote: post #38

I fear this is the warning shot across the bow of those tech executives who supported this president. First, they come for your conferences. Then, your H1B visa-holding employees. Then...? Innovation thrives on freedom. Freedom of expression, freedom of movement, freedom of markets. And tech, in its best form, is about freedom, rather than market-capture and rent-seeking. Needless to say, none of these recent develop…

Innovation thrives on the rule of law, independent courts and neutral arbiters of contracts, habeas corpus and due process, the right to a lawyer, and the right to uncoerced testimony. Consider Jethro Tull, the farmer. In 1700 he was 26 and he was taking over the family farm. He hired some local hands to seed the fields that spring. As had happened for thousands of years, the workers took bags of seed and cast handfu…

I'm not very convinced by your argument. I don't see how the rule of law affected Tull. I think it's more important that he was influenced by the rise of scientific thinking during the Enlightenment and sought more efficient means of agriculture using the scientific method. Also, the Wikipedia says that the seed drill was known in Europe for about a hundred years before Tull refined it and it took another one hundred and fifty years before it was in widespread use. The correlation with the rule of law seems pretty weak to me.

Re: Tripling Down Against USA Conference Hosting

#65

Post by Symbiote »

cperciva wrote: post #48
toothbrush wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This would be unfortunate for conference attendees from Central and South America, but they're far outnumbered by the conference attendees from Europe and Asia. Then surely, somewhere in Europe or Asia or perhaps wherever the centre of mass of the conference participants happened to fall would be the cheapest destination? I, for one, do not live in the USA, so Canada would definitely not be cheaper than Europe to v…

Maybe it's just a matter of which conferences I attend, but my impression is that "conference attendees per capita" is highest for the USA, lower for Europe, and much lower for Asia. If you want to be closest to people in general you'd probably aim for somewhere around Nepal (mind you, it doesn't have very good connectivity for air travel); but being closest to conference attendees is probably going to be between the…

Asia is on the opposite side of the world from the USA. Their cost to attend is highest, when the conference is in the USA.

Check the distances on a globe -- "between the USA, Europe and Asia" is actually the Middle East. If we need to account for additional attendance from North America, then somewhere in Europe is better -- and the south or east cheaper than the north or west.

Re: Tripling Down Against USA Conference Hosting

#66

Post by Noseshine »

flukus wrote: post #31

Do we need conferences at all?

Define "need". Do you need to breathe? Only if you think you need to live, and the only reason you want to live is that you are wired that way (selection bias, all those who didn't care enough have been removed). Life isn't something objective, you can just decide on what's important to you, as long as it doesn't interfere with your ability to go on living it does not matter. Some people like cats, some people like ice cream. Some people like to talk to other people in their field in person and go to conferences or far-away meetings. Some people go far away for no reason at all (vacation)!

Re: Tripling Down Against USA Conference Hosting

#67

Post by caminante »

onion2k wrote: post #56
lkrubner wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Innovation thrives on the rule of law, independent courts and neutral arbiters of contracts, habeas corpus and due process, the right to a lawyer, and the right to uncoerced testimony. Consider Jethro Tull, the farmer. In 1700 he was 26 and he was taking over the family farm. He hired some local hands to seed the fields that spring. As had happened for thousands of years, the workers took bags of seed and cast handfu…

That would be a compelling line of reasoning if Jethro Tull had actually invented the seed drill, but he didn't. He perfected the design but the device had been around Europe for 150 years before Tull's version, and in China for 2000 years before that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seed_drill

I understand your point, though, I don't see it as diminishing Tull's contributions or lkrubner's story's allure.

Re: Tripling Down Against USA Conference Hosting

#68

Post by lkrubner »

adrianN wrote: post #64
lkrubner wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Innovation thrives on the rule of law, independent courts and neutral arbiters of contracts, habeas corpus and due process, the right to a lawyer, and the right to uncoerced testimony. Consider Jethro Tull, the farmer. In 1700 he was 26 and he was taking over the family farm. He hired some local hands to seed the fields that spring. As had happened for thousands of years, the workers took bags of seed and cast handfu…

I'm not very convinced by your argument. I don't see how the rule of law affected Tull. I think it's more important that he was influenced by the rise of scientific thinking during the Enlightenment and sought more efficient means of agriculture using the scientific method. Also, the Wikipedia says that the seed drill was known in Europe for about a hundred years before Tull refined it and it took another one hundred…

You assume the outcome when you write "the rise of scientific thinking during the Enlightenment". Why didn't the Enlightenment happen in Italy? Why was Galileo arrested whereas Newton became a national hero? The regime of human rights was very different in Italy versus England, and that influenced where the Enlightenment happened. Giordano Bruno was burned at the stake, whereas Edmond Halley had the liberty needed to study comets, and even predict when Halley's Comet would return.

Re: Tripling Down Against USA Conference Hosting

#69

Post by jakeogh »

adrianN wrote: post #64
lkrubner wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Innovation thrives on the rule of law, independent courts and neutral arbiters of contracts, habeas corpus and due process, the right to a lawyer, and the right to uncoerced testimony. Consider Jethro Tull, the farmer. In 1700 he was 26 and he was taking over the family farm. He hired some local hands to seed the fields that spring. As had happened for thousands of years, the workers took bags of seed and cast handfu…

I'm not very convinced by your argument. I don't see how the rule of law affected Tull. I think it's more important that he was influenced by the rise of scientific thinking during the Enlightenment and sought more efficient means of agriculture using the scientific method. Also, the Wikipedia says that the seed drill was known in Europe for about a hundred years before Tull refined it and it took another one hundred…

Property rights. It was Tull's land and "they still ignored him" so he fired them.

Re: Tripling Down Against USA Conference Hosting

#70

Post by bjshepard »

astrodust wrote: post #35
xiaoma wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, India and China are indisputable giants but also consider Japan (still the #2 or #3 economy in the world depending on the metric), Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore—all advanced economies with extremely educated and technical populaces. Then there's Vietnam, which is very poor but growing over 10% / year and highly educated despite the poverty. There are also hundreds of millions of people in Indonesia and…

It will . It does not right now if you're talking about conferences. Participants are still largely from the Americas and Europe. Also this entire argument is utterly absurd. If you're upset about brutal domestic policies the last place you should be arguing in favor of is China.

China has very sane, good government, come actually experience it and stop believing CIA lies. The firewall is a rational way to keep the US deep state out.
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