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Tripling Down Against USA Conference Hosting

robert.ocallahan.org

51–60 of 180 posts

Re: Tripling Down Against USA Conference Hosting

#51
post #43

This is a great opportunity for Canadian, Australian and top European universities to step up their game. Some universities in these regions have solid reputations but lacked the star-power of top US univs. Hosting a few ACM conferences will shoot them on top of global map. Just checked, ACM is already on it: https://www.acm.org/conferences

Do universities that don't have to rely on the money they get form international students have the same incentives as US universities? From what I read that's a major consideration for US universities why they want to attract foreign students. For German universities that would only be of marginal concern, even if/when they take some money from foreign students it's just pocket change and not nearly enough to finance…

At least in the UK international students are a big chunk of a decent university's income. Tuition fees for UK residents are capped, while there's no limit to how much a good university can charge Russian oligarchs to educate their children.

There are some issues around that, specifically with business departments being disproportionately well funded, but it does mean that other departments also have more money to work with than they would otherwise.

Re: Tripling Down Against USA Conference Hosting

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This would be unfortunate for conference attendees from Central and South America, but they're far outnumbered by the conference attendees from Europe and Asia. Then surely, somewhere in Europe or Asia or perhaps wherever the centre of mass of the conference participants happened to fall would be the cheapest destination? I, for one, do not live in the USA, so Canada would definitely not be cheaper than Europe to v…

Maybe it's just a matter of which conferences I attend, but my impression is that "conference attendees per capita" is highest for the USA, lower for Europe, and much lower for Asia. If you want to be closest to people in general you'd probably aim for somewhere around Nepal (mind you, it doesn't have very good connectivity for air travel); but being closest to conference attendees is probably going to be between the…

How much of that is a product of it being much more expensive for someone from Asia to travel to US conferences? I'm in the often forgotten pool of people who can't just expense conference travel with their employer, and that means I don't even consider conferences outside Europe as they'll be prohibitively expensive.

Re: Tripling Down Against USA Conference Hosting

#53

I fear this is the warning shot across the bow of those tech executives who supported this president. First, they come for your conferences. Then, your H1B visa-holding employees. Then...? Innovation thrives on freedom. Freedom of expression, freedom of movement, freedom of markets. And tech, in its best form, is about freedom, rather than market-capture and rent-seeking. Needless to say, none of these recent develop…

Innovation thrives on the rule of law, independent courts and neutral arbiters of contracts, habeas corpus and due process, the right to a lawyer, and the right to uncoerced testimony.

Consider Jethro Tull, the farmer. In 1700 he was 26 and he was taking over the family farm. He hired some local hands to seed the fields that spring. As had happened for thousands of years, the workers took bags of seed and cast handfuls on the ground. Jethro Tull became angry, because there were patches of ground that had too much seed, and other patches of ground that had too little seed. He went over to the workers and asked them to be more careful. But they proceeded as before. Tull became more angry, and went to speak with them again. But they still ignored him, and kept doing their work in the traditional manner, as they had since they were children, and as had their parents before them, and their parents before that. Tull was in a rage, but saw he could not change how the workers did their work. Instead, he decided to build a machine that would plant seeds at regular intervals. This was the beginning of the Agricultural Revolution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jethro_Tull_(agriculturist)

But now ask, why did this happen in 1700, and not in 1680 or 1660 or 1500, for that matter? Was Tull simply smarter than any farmer that had ever lived before that time? Or was their a new legal system on his side?

In the time of Tull's father, England was still burning witches. The last great spasm of irrational fear and witch burning swept over Britain in the mid 1600s. But then Britain passed the Bill Of Rights, in 1688. Now everyone had the right to a fair trial, and a right to a lawyer, and no one could be tortured into confessing to a crime, such as witchcraft. And Tull belonged to the first generation of entrepreneurs in history knowing that they could depend on the rule of law -- the government could not take arbitrary action against him, but was constrained by its own processes. Therefore Tull could shatter tradition, and do completely new things, without the threat of being burned as a witch.

I could cite an endless number of examples. Galileo made brilliant discoveries in an illiberal nation, and was put under house arrest, Newtown made discoveries in a nation of laws, and he became a national hero. Simply knowing that laws will be enforced fairly defeats a lot of the kinds of evil scheming that spring up under authoritarian regimes.

"Freedom" is an empty word. When talking about the kinds of environments that cultivate innovation, it's best to try to be specific about that environment. History teach us the raw ingredients: the rule of law, fair and independent courts, habeas corpus and due process, the right to a lawyer, the right to uncoerced testimony.

Re: Tripling Down Against USA Conference Hosting

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do universities that don't have to rely on the money they get form international students have the same incentives as US universities? From what I read that's a major consideration for US universities why they want to attract foreign students. For German universities that would only be of marginal concern, even if/when they take some money from foreign students it's just pocket change and not nearly enough to finance…

At least in the UK international students are a big chunk of a decent university's income. Tuition fees for UK residents are capped, while there's no limit to how much a good university can charge Russian oligarchs to educate their children. There are some issues around that, specifically with business departments being disproportionately well funded, but it does mean that other departments also have more money to wo…

I know that the UK situation for tuition is comparable to the one in the US. My points is about universities in countries that don't have that financial incentive and pressure. The UK is just one small somewhat "special" country in Europe.

The difference between European countries can be quite high (http://www.mastersportal.eu/articles/405/tuition-fees-at-uni...), so my comment wasn't about any one in particular. When I look at just Germany even within the same country there is a lot of variation depending on the university and the particular program. But in general universities in many European countries don't rely on income from foreign students to the extend that US universities seem to do.

Re: Tripling Down Against USA Conference Hosting

#55
post #44
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The next most important start-up hub after SF is Beijing. It's much more affordable than SF, but there are other concerns with hosting conferences there such as pollution, speech and media controls and a lot of regulation in general. edit: I had no idea there was so much China hate here. I'm no fan of certain policies of the government, believe me. I hate the GFW with a passion. But the entrepreneurial community is i…

I've been to a conference in mainland China. The firewall made it completely miserable (it was a tech conference). People from the west expect to be able to use Google/gmail/hangouts/github/ssh for more than 5 minute random bursts of connectivity. You can't expect people to go to tech conferences in those garbage conditions.

DevCon2? Lots of people on /r/ethereum were upset that videos of the talks were not available for weeks afterwards because it was in Shanghai.

Re: Tripling Down Against USA Conference Hosting

#56

I fear this is the warning shot across the bow of those tech executives who supported this president. First, they come for your conferences. Then, your H1B visa-holding employees. Then...? Innovation thrives on freedom. Freedom of expression, freedom of movement, freedom of markets. And tech, in its best form, is about freedom, rather than market-capture and rent-seeking. Needless to say, none of these recent develop…

Innovation thrives on the rule of law, independent courts and neutral arbiters of contracts, habeas corpus and due process, the right to a lawyer, and the right to uncoerced testimony. Consider Jethro Tull, the farmer. In 1700 he was 26 and he was taking over the family farm. He hired some local hands to seed the fields that spring. As had happened for thousands of years, the workers took bags of seed and cast handfu…

That would be a compelling line of reasoning if Jethro Tull had actually invented the seed drill, but he didn't. He perfected the design but the device had been around Europe for 150 years before Tull's version, and in China for 2000 years before that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seed_drill

Re: Tripling Down Against USA Conference Hosting

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do universities that don't have to rely on the money they get form international students have the same incentives as US universities? From what I read that's a major consideration for US universities why they want to attract foreign students. For German universities that would only be of marginal concern, even if/when they take some money from foreign students it's just pocket change and not nearly enough to finance…

At least in the UK international students are a big chunk of a decent university's income. Tuition fees for UK residents are capped, while there's no limit to how much a good university can charge Russian oligarchs to educate their children. There are some issues around that, specifically with business departments being disproportionately well funded, but it does mean that other departments also have more money to wo…

The top few business schools can also get UK citizens to pay £51,000 for a one year MBA course [1] so I think they'd be pretty well funded even without international students.

[1] https://www.jbs.cam.ac.uk/programmes/mba/facts-faqs/#item-4

Re: Tripling Down Against USA Conference Hosting

#58
post #9

Just the first ripples against the shore of what I expect to be a tsunami of unexpected consequences. Seems like a golden opportunity for another country to step up and become the "conference center of the world". I'd LOL extra hard if it turned out to be Mexico.

Seems like a golden opportunity for another country to step up and become the "conference center of the world". I'd LOL extra hard if it turned out to be Mexico. Can I suggest Canada for this purpose? We're a cheaper conference destination than the USA, Europe, or Japan; have a fluently English-speaking population anywhere conferences would be held (most people in Montreal are bilingual); have good infrastructure; an…

> already fly over Canada anyway

But holding conferences in Canada would leave many people with few good options, other than to transfer in the USA.

Transiting through an American airport requires a visa, and [1] had her transit visa cancelled last week, leaving her stranded in Costa Rica.

It was policy at my previous employer, which had lots of work in Central America and an international staff, to avoid transiting through Florida, and use Madrid or Panama instead. The hassle wasn't worth at most a minor saving in cost or time.

Southern Europe would be a cheaper location for conferences, with few visa issues, and is also a lot closer to Asia.

[1] http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-38786119

Re: Tripling Down Against USA Conference Hosting

#59
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few years ago I raised the idea (on Twitter) of Iceland being a nice "neutral" venue that's equally (in)convenient for both US and European attendees, very liberal and progressive, and, at the time, cheap for a Nordic country. I have since seen a handful of industry conferences take place there, but it hasn't really blown up (one reason, I suspect, is it's reasonably expensive to stay there now - Iceland's decline…

While the idea of Iceland is great, being in the middle of the Atlantic. But this means that it's close to no one, including likely conference organizers.

Iceland is only a four-hour flight from Boston or Berlin. It's really quite a convenient location.

Re: Tripling Down Against USA Conference Hosting

#60
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Innovation thrives on the rule of law, independent courts and neutral arbiters of contracts, habeas corpus and due process, the right to a lawyer, and the right to uncoerced testimony. Consider Jethro Tull, the farmer. In 1700 he was 26 and he was taking over the family farm. He hired some local hands to seed the fields that spring. As had happened for thousands of years, the workers took bags of seed and cast handfu…

That would be a compelling line of reasoning if Jethro Tull had actually invented the seed drill, but he didn't. He perfected the design but the device had been around Europe for 150 years before Tull's version, and in China for 2000 years before that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seed_drill

The same argument applies even more strongly. If a technology is known, but fails to come into widespread use until there is a legal system that protects people from persecution, then the new legal system clearly played a large role in emancipating that technology from obscurity.

Do I need to list every example? I was assuming they were well known.

Consider what France lost by driving out the Huguenots. Consider what England gained by offering protection to the Jews.

Consider this famous summary by Voltaire:

"Although the Episcopalian and the Presbyterian are the two main sects in Great Britain, all others are welcome there and live pretty comfortably together, though most of their preachers detest one another almost as cordially as a Jansenist damns a Jesuit. Go into the Exchange in London, that place more venerable than many a court, and you will see representatives of all the nations assembled there for the profit of mankind. There the Jew, the Mahometan, and the Christian deal with one another as if they were of the same religion and reserve the name of infidel for those who go bankrupt. There the Presbyterian trusts the Anabaptist, and the Church of England man accepts the promise of the Quaker. On leaving these peaceable and free assemblies, some go to the synagogue, others in search of a drink; this man is on the way to be baptized in a great tub in the name of the Father, by the Son, to the Holy Ghost; that man is having the foreskin of his son cut off, and a Hebraic formula mumbled over the child that he himself can make nothing of; these others are going to their church to await the inspiration of God with their hats on; and all are satisfied."

That such a great market could come into existence was thanks to the legal system set up in Britain during its revolutionary period, which ended with the passage of the Bill Of Rights that gave most British citizens the basic rights we nowadays assume.

Also consider what Britain lost, 90 years later, when Parliament suddenly asserted that the Bill Of Rights was not a universal set of human rights, but a specific set of liberties given to people living in the British Isles, but not applying to the Colonies of North America. The people living in the Colonies of North America were so outraged by this that they rebelled against British rule and broke ties with the British government.

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