Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Time to Take a Stand

blog.samaltman.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

331–340 of 1001 posts

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#331

Post by bassman9000 »

raverbashing wrote: post #208
general_ai wrote: post #100

First, it's not a "ban". It's a temporary suspension until new vetting procedures are put in place. Second, it's not "Muslim". Muslims from all other countries (some of them pretty large, e.g. Indonesia and Pakistan), will experience no change in their ability to enter the US. Other than Iran (which imo shouldn't be on the list) we're bombing and droning all of those countries at the moment. It's insane to accept mil…

> It's insane to accept military age males from there for entry into the country That's why there's a procedure for obtaining a visa. Individuals from those countries can only go to the US in possession of a visa

And if you had read the text, which you clearly haven't, you'll see that there have been issues with the visa process, and the new administration wants to review it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/us/politics/refugee-musli...

Go read it, now.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#332

Post by smacktoward »

oblio wrote: post #248
smacktoward wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laws do not enforce themselves. They only have power when there are people with authority willing to stand up and enforce them. Without that, they are just words on paper. Right now all three branches of the Federal government are in the hands of the Republican Party. Trump has one branch; the other two have no interest in opposing him, so long as he lets them do what they want as well. So for the moment, at least, t…

The problem with this line of short term thinking is that it can backfire badly. Yes, they get 1 term or 2, but then the backlash can bury them for decades. Especially in the context of America's changing demographics.

It's not short term thinking at all. This is the GOP's big chance to roll back the modern American system, which was erected by liberals like Roosevelt and Johnson, and replace it with something more to their ideological liking. Doing so has been their #1 political objective since the 1930s.

Why on earth would they fail to seize such an opportunity? Especially when, as you note, changing demographics mean that another one is unlikely to ever come again?

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#333

Post by kinghajj »

467568985476 wrote: post #153
djrogers wrote: post #8

> In doing so, we should not demonize Trump voters—most of them voted for him for reasons other than the promise of a Muslim ban. We need their eventual support in resisting actions like these, and we will not get it if we further isolate them. This is very important people - calling everyone who voted for Trump a racist homophobe, a moron, and not deserving of the franchise is not going to help anything. I didn't vo…

This comment reeks of victim blaming. Nobody who voted for Trump and Pence should be allowed to escape being held accountable for what they support. If their "economic anxiety" was bad enough that they can ignore the rights of LGBT people and religious minorities, then they are all the more guilty. Those people were never centrists and knew exactly who they voted for.

How do you propose Trump voters be "held accountable" for their vote?

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#334

Post by llamataboot »

mythrwy wrote: post #313
stonogo wrote: post #168

> This is very important people It's also complete bullshit. I actually live in a Trump-supporting area, and everyone I know who voted for him is ecstatic about this disgusting, offensive action. Trump is a bad person, and the people who voted for him are bad people, and I hope to God I 'push them away' as far as they'll get from me.

"Trump is a bad person, and the people who voted for him are bad people" I voted for Trump. I support many (not all) of his policies. I don't appreciate being called a bad person. Certainly you have a right to think this but I disagree. I won't go into what I think of people who voted for Hillary because I try not be mindlessly nasty but I don't think they are all "bad people".

Then you voted for an autocratic, racist, dangerous man that is implementing policies antithetical to a free and democratic society after he openly said he would do so.

I'm not interested in evaluating whether you are evil or not. I am interested in opposing everything you voted for. I don't want to change your mind. I want to keep you far away from any sort of power.

Whether or not you voted for Trump because of his racism, you voted for him DESPITE his racism.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#335

Post by disantlor »

thedevil wrote: post #243
djrogers wrote: post #8

> In doing so, we should not demonize Trump voters—most of them voted for him for reasons other than the promise of a Muslim ban. We need their eventual support in resisting actions like these, and we will not get it if we further isolate them. This is very important people - calling everyone who voted for Trump a racist homophobe, a moron, and not deserving of the franchise is not going to help anything. I didn't vo…

> I didn't vote for Trump, but I do identify with some of the beliefs of those who did, and I can tell you that the rhetoric I'm hearing from many of the most vocal left is pushing the middle away. I'm in the exact same boat. I don't like Trump at all and this move frightens me. But my friends who argued for Trump actually had more logical arguments and my friends who opposed Trump actually mostly just insulted the p…

why are we giving so much benefit of the doubt to trump and trumps supporters

not only is this move ridiculous but it was executed with no foresight. now border agents are forced to make ad hoc decisions because it went into effect immediately. trump supporters cheering and claiming its just temporary, to give us time to "figure out whats going on" are deluding themselves. they rush through a ridiculous, anti-american order and now somehow they are going to make it all better.

trump supporters are a minority of the country. they won this time but i dont see any reason to pander to them.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#336

Post by cderwin »

stonogo wrote: post #168

> This is very important people It's also complete bullshit. I actually live in a Trump-supporting area, and everyone I know who voted for him is ecstatic about this disgusting, offensive action. Trump is a bad person, and the people who voted for him are bad people, and I hope to God I 'push them away' as far as they'll get from me.

Honest question: how do you think a country where nearly half of its population are "bad people" should be governed? I can't imagine you'll actually be successful in pushing away one out of every two Americans. What do you think would be proper action to devalue the influence of these people and where in the world would you draw the line?

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#337

Post by id »

naaaaak wrote: post #253
the8472 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is the same kind of bullshit that's lost Hillary the election and got us here in the first place. Wasn't low democrat turnout part of the problem?

Wasn't running the most corrupt, least trustworthy candidate who couldn't cite a single accomplishment in 30 years of public "self service" THE problem?

The GOP smear campaign was so successful that even many liberals went along with it.

Trump is undeniably more corrupt, less trustworthy and has no experience whatsoever. It shows everyday. She on the other hand was actually a decent candidate with a lot of experience and few scandals.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#338

Post by lukasm »

Cyph0n wrote: post #142
oh_sigh wrote: post #111

Why do people call this a "Muslim ban", when most Muslims are unaffected by it? There are 200M Muslims in Indonesia who are unaffected, 180M Pakistani Muslims, 172M Indian Muslims, 150M Bangladeshi Muslims, 75M Nigerian Muslims, 75M Turkish Muslims, 73M Egyptian Muslims...all of these people are unaffected by this "Muslim ban"

OK, but they explicitly mentioned that non-Muslims from the target countries are exempt from the ban. What do you call that?

Can you provide the source please? BBC says that the minority will have a priority e.g. Shia in Yemen.

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#339

Post by protomikron »

I just want to say that I appreciate Sam Altman for speaking up - I know that just speaking doesn't change things, but tech/business guys are often very cautious when discussing politics, as they fear that making their political stand public may have negative consequences to their business (which might be true), but in times like these one has to take position.

So kudos, Sam, and please America don't go the route of politics that mimic politics of Europe's 1930s (sadly there are also suboptimal developments in Europe).

Re: Time to Take a Stand

#340

Post by adamrezich »

adamnemecek wrote: post #292

I think that one of the main issues of politics is the lack of real time data. There should be a website where people can vote every day (I'm not sure what exactly I mean by vote, I guess the bare minimum would be "i'm content with current political situation" and "i'm not content with current political situation"). Idk if this could take off but i feel like it could become a tool for voicing discontent and seeing so…

This only works in a system where every citizen has perfect, unbiased information on what is happening in our government. Unfortunately, this is impossible, and humans are emotionally-driven creatures, so whatever memes get the most emotional traction in both traditional media and social media spread the quickest, regardless of logic or reason.
Post reply on HN