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China is choking the Internet

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: China is choking the Internet

#111

Post by jhancock »

Super74 wrote: post #101
jhancock wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's snarky and ignorant. I've lived in Shanghai for 10 years. The Internet blocking never effected my ability to deliver quality IT solutions to my customers.

I cannot imagine what "quality" IT solutions you sold over here. Where did you get your HW and SW from, the IT malls run by teenagers? Internet blocking not a problem? I guess you don't read much online. It amazes me what I cannot get access to without my VPN. No videos, no blogs, no web 2.0. The world is passing China by. But, I guess you are back in the safety and security of the good ol' USA, so it ain't your prob…

I understand your current frustration. If you expect everyplace you go to be just like home, your bound to be frustrated.

As far as "quality" IT solutions go. Well, lets see here: I helped the Shanghai gov make an e-workflow solution for procurement. This cut down on costs and kickbacks a lot. I helped several Chinese banks become online banks. Some of my middleware code processes billions in transactions without breaking a sweat.

I'm sorry you don't feel safe and secure in China. I was at Home Depot last week with my son. About an hour after I left, a guy shot and killed another man on isle 13...same isle we were on. I never feared for the safety of my family in Shanghai.

Re: China is choking the Internet

#112

Post by felipe »

Super74 wrote: post #92

As I write this I too am having to go through a VPN to access the world. Even when it works properly, I constantly have to "play the VPN game." I really don't have the time to list out every item from jhancock that I disagree with, but pretty much all of them made me grimace. And I find it poignant that he no longer lives here. I too live in Shanghai and have for the past 5 years. I came here looking for another view…

People can enjoy clean water and clean air in the US because all the crap we consume is outsourced to China.

Re: China is choking the Internet

#113

Post by Vivtek »

jacquesm wrote: post #103
Vivtek wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A propos snark and ignorance, my wife is Hungarian, and as my other reply makes clear, this is less "red scare" and more "lack of connectivity scare". If you want to imply that all Americans live in fear of Communism, I can find you plenty that meet your prejudices, but painting us all with the same brush is pretty much calling the kettle black.

I have lots of American friends and very few of them would fall for the 'red scare' stuff, but I'm actually surprised to see so much of it in a HN thread. Lack of connectivity is a problem, but it is a technical problem. The suggestion that someone in China would go to jail or worse for asking a question is what got me irritated. It's simply misinformation and fear mongering. If you went all out against the governmen…

Ah. So when I said, "And apparently don't rely on a working Internet," and you said, "Red scare," you were responding to everybody else on the thread, and not me. Sorry for the confusion.

Re: China is choking the Internet

#114

Post by felipe »

Super74 wrote: post #98
garply wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I voluntarily live in China and in many ways prefer living here to living in my homeland (the US). Otherwise, why would I be here? The food's great, the economy's great, people are friendly if you try to understand the culture, cost of living is low, and there's plenty of interesting historical stuff all around. Not to mention it's a very fascinating time to be here as you can see the most populous nation on Earth ra…

Cost of living ain't low, unless you live in a village. Shanghai is more expensive than NY. A beer is 45RMB, and that's for a Bud, not a fancy micro. Live like a local and you forgo comfort for cost. Anything foreign or of genuine quality is 2x the price as the western world. Even HK is a deal, unless you have to buy or rent property.Every time I go for business, I do all my shopping for 100% originals, not fakes. Th…

Really, you complain about China because a Bud is 45 kuai?!?! Of course anything foreign is more expensive than the west. You realize you are in the other side of the world, right?

About the CCP making a mint off the US: Keep in mind that is the US that's selling treasuries.

Re: China is choking the Internet

#115

Post by felipe »

jhancock wrote: post #111
Super74 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cannot imagine what "quality" IT solutions you sold over here. Where did you get your HW and SW from, the IT malls run by teenagers? Internet blocking not a problem? I guess you don't read much online. It amazes me what I cannot get access to without my VPN. No videos, no blogs, no web 2.0. The world is passing China by. But, I guess you are back in the safety and security of the good ol' USA, so it ain't your prob…

I understand your current frustration. If you expect everyplace you go to be just like home, your bound to be frustrated. As far as "quality" IT solutions go. Well, lets see here: I helped the Shanghai gov make an e-workflow solution for procurement. This cut down on costs and kickbacks a lot. I helped several Chinese banks become online banks. Some of my middleware code processes billions in transactions without bre…

I lived in Mountain View (California -- where Google is located) and I had to call the police twice because I heard gun shots over the creek behind my apt complex. In China I go to the ATM at 2am and it's totally safe.

Re: China is choking the Internet

#116

Post by felipe »

bcl wrote: post #21

Quite frankly I think you are nuts for voluntarily living in China. And trying to run a business off the books? The punishment for that is severe enough here in the US, I cannot imagine what it is there. The only real solution to your problem is to move to a free country. Take it while you till have that option. As far as technical solutions, how good are they at tracking down individual, private VPN sessions? Setup…

> The only real solution to your problem is to move to a free country.

Ask any of your black friends if they think they live in a free country. Ask latinos in Arizona. Ask gay couples who want to get married.

Re: China is choking the Internet

#117

Post by mcantelon »

Super74 wrote: post #92

As I write this I too am having to go through a VPN to access the world. Even when it works properly, I constantly have to "play the VPN game." I really don't have the time to list out every item from jhancock that I disagree with, but pretty much all of them made me grimace. And I find it poignant that he no longer lives here. I too live in Shanghai and have for the past 5 years. I came here looking for another view…

America is better off currently mostly because it is newer. As time goes on the US will become more and more like China: more corruption, more pollution, less human rights.

Re: China is choking the Internet

#118

Post by DeusExMachina »

mcantelon wrote: post #117
Super74 wrote: post #92

As I write this I too am having to go through a VPN to access the world. Even when it works properly, I constantly have to "play the VPN game." I really don't have the time to list out every item from jhancock that I disagree with, but pretty much all of them made me grimace. And I find it poignant that he no longer lives here. I too live in Shanghai and have for the past 5 years. I came here looking for another view…

America is better off currently mostly because it is newer. As time goes on the US will become more and more like China: more corruption, more pollution, less human rights.

I really don't think so. America can be "new", but Europe is much more old.

We are certainly having some problems on these topics, but we are far from being corrupted, polluted and without human rights. Especially in the northern european country, that are a big example of legality, human and civil rights and environmentally directed mindset.

I think that it's not a matter of how old a country is. To cite another example I know well, Italy is far worse than Europe, despite being first world, because, as a country, is really young (150 years compared to centuries for all other european countries).

Re: China is choking the Internet

#119

Post by jhancock »

ErrantX wrote: post #102
jhancock wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you experienced law enforcement and courts in China? I have on several occasions. As well as the U.S.. I lived in Shanghai 10 years. I'm in the U.S. right now with my Chinese wife. My experiences in Shanghai court and with Shanghai police were more fair and congenial than in the U.S. My wife and I were at the county courthouse (U.S.) a week ago and we talked a bit about the flow of a court proceeding. Somewhere…

I've stayed out of this till now; but feel I have to add something here. I worked for a client in Shanghai to clear him of Fraud allegations (just to get it out of the way; he was beyond clearly innocent - competitors had planted "evidence" and reported him). One of the most memorable things he said (and I feel this sums up Chinese hierarchy to a tee) was: The legal system here is absolutely great. It's when they dec…

Apologies if my previous post implied China law and justice was better than the U.S. The two systems aren't easily compared. I was attempting to provide a counterbalance to my parent post's hyperbola. [ADDED]: I should not have said the China system is more fair and congenial than the U.S. What I should have said is I was disarmed by how fair it was compared to what I was prepared to experience based on my prejudice.

As to what your client went through...all I can say is there are bad people everywhere. Rule #1 for me in China is "Don't do business with shady people or in market segments dominated by shady people". I think you can apply this rule anywhere.

Re: China is choking the Internet

#120

Post by ErrantX »

jhancock wrote: post #119
ErrantX wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've stayed out of this till now; but feel I have to add something here. I worked for a client in Shanghai to clear him of Fraud allegations (just to get it out of the way; he was beyond clearly innocent - competitors had planted "evidence" and reported him). One of the most memorable things he said (and I feel this sums up Chinese hierarchy to a tee) was: The legal system here is absolutely great. It's when they dec…

Apologies if my previous post implied China law and justice was better than the U.S. The two systems aren't easily compared. I was attempting to provide a counterbalance to my parent post's hyperbola. [ADDED]: I should not have said the China system is more fair and congenial than the U.S. What I should have said is I was disarmed by how fair it was compared to what I was prepared to experience based on my prejudice.…

Not in quite the same way. Because all you need to do is compete with a local firm too well, or piss off the wrong person, or cause problems by not working in the accepted way.

There's the crucial difference I feel.

(though on the other hand it's not as bad a picture as some people like to paint. You just have to be sensible and keep your head down)

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