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China is choking the Internet

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: China is choking the Internet

#41

Post by braindead_in »

There seems to be a great market DPI and other "security" focused technologies. You can always sell such products to Governments.

That being said, I find it hard to believe that the internet can be censored and regulated. It just takes too much time and effort to be worth it. Whatever the technology used, there will always be workarounds. There is no such thing as foolproof technology.

More and more its seems like a big con. The Government wanted it and some smart guy told them it can be done. He must be making a lot of money now.

Re: China is choking the Internet

#43

Post by bcl »

grandalf wrote: post #28

Sign up for a $20 slice at slice host, install squid, and configure a ssh tunnel to it. Tell your browser to use the tunneled proxy. Voilà. Edit: just saw two others recommended this approach.

The problem with this is the same as for services like dropbox. If enough people do this they will start blocking the slicehost IPs.

To be successful you need to have * IP usage distributed over a wide range * private distribution of proxy details * ability to switch to a new proxy when your current one is blocked

Tor tries to accomplish most of this, but from the OP's post it appears that it is being effectively blocked, either by watching Tor entry points or by packet inspection.

Re: China is choking the Internet

#44

Post by 0wned »

beilabs wrote: post #31
grandalf wrote: post #28

Sign up for a $20 slice at slice host, install squid, and configure a ssh tunnel to it. Tell your browser to use the tunneled proxy. Voilà. Edit: just saw two others recommended this approach.

I lived in China for years, I recommend this approach....

Be sure to push your DNS through the OpenSSH tunnel too, or they'll see your client's DNS requests. Here is a very short write-up on safe web browsing while on untrusted networks: http://16systems.com/OpenBSD/untrusted.pdf

Re: China is choking the Internet

#45

Post by jacquesm »

bcl wrote: post #40
jacquesm wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Quite frankly I think you are nuts for voluntarily living in China. Why? Two of my friends are doing the exact same thing (only their businesses are registered) and they're doing just fine. One moved there from the Netherlands, the other from Hungary. > And trying to run a business off the books? The punishment for that is severe enough here in the US, I cannot imagine what it is there. Neither can I, but that's no…

As a start I will point you here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_the_Peoples_Rep... (note: that should be People's the HN url detector clobbers it) There are enough other sites with information on China's civil rights abuses that you should be able to duck Duck Go it ;) Living in a country with little or no respect for the law and expecting a reasonable outcome is not rational. You cannot extrapolate t…

That link points in to empty space, and even if it didn't I highly doubt you'll find a single documented case of a foreigner operating a business in China that was jailed, unless they were doing something illegal.

Simply asking for resources with a statement that you'll be forced to leave if you can't work will most likely not result in a jail sentence or even any action at all.

Without proof that's just scaremongering about China.

We all know China has human rights abuses, but if you read the charter on human rights then you'd know that there is almost no single country that does not have their share of that.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/us-human-rights/page.do?id=1011100

Of course I can not extrapolate the experience of my friends to the whole system, but neither can you extrapolate the other way around and say that there is absolutely no reason in China at all and that a mere request would get you punished.

Unless you can back that up with proof.

Re: China is choking the Internet

#46

Post by hga »

braindead_in wrote: post #41

There seems to be a great market DPI and other "security" focused technologies. You can always sell such products to Governments. That being said, I find it hard to believe that the internet can be censored and regulated. It just takes too much time and effort to be worth it. Whatever the technology used, there will always be workarounds. There is no such thing as foolproof technology. More and more its seems like a…

The ruling class of the PRC is currently willing to keep power by any means necessary.

I'm hesitant to bet against a ruling class while it still maintains its own Gulag (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laogai) and gets 65% of the country's organs for transplant from those it executes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_in_the_People%...).

Yes, someday it will likely all come tumbling down, although I think that history shows that tends to happen when the ruling class loses the will to engage in such extremes. Or if its own history is any guide it might split apart again.

But in the meanwhile they clearly think its worth the time and effort. And little mammals like us startup types need to be careful to avoid getting trampled underfoot.

Re: China is choking the Internet

#47

Post by potatolicious »

SachaG wrote: post #12

You could say that this is actually beneficial for chinese startups, because without access to foreign alternatives chinese users are forced to use their services. I don't think it's a coincidence if most segments of the chinese internet are dominated by a company from China, not the USA. The other goal that the Chinese government is achieving, is that by pushing chinese users towards chinese companies, they make sur…

That's slightly oversimplified I think, and risks ignoring e greater causes of why Chinese internet companies have succeeded beyond American ones in that market. Facebook ripoffs like Xiaonei were vastly more popular than Facebook itself even when no block was in place.

Re: China is choking the Internet

#48

Post by jacquesm »

hga wrote: post #39
jacquesm wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I gave that example because the entrepreneur it writes about was a foreigner visiting the US with a business outside of the US where his activities were legal.

Indeed, but it's still within the confines of the rule of law. He could have avoided this unhappy conclusion by either not accepting business from the US that is illegal here or never stepping foot in the US. Heck, he could have joined Antigua in bringing this before the WTO in 2003: http://www.antiguawto.com/WTODispPg.html The law was published, well publicized and I find it very difficult to believe he didn't know…

If it is legal to smoke pot in Amsterdam, but illegal to do it in the US would you consider it ok for US law enforcement to jail visitors that have smoked pot in Amsterdam, or sold pot to United States citizens?

Re: China is choking the Internet

#49

Post by jacquesm »

jacquesm wrote: post #10
dublinclontarf wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually I came here because my wife missed home, and the business isn't official(that is, isn't registered which because I'm not Chinese takes a lot of time and money and could very well be flat out rejected, have a read of some posts at China Law Blog http://www.chinalawblog.com/ , they cover the details). Basically this is something I've just gone ahead and started, will work my ass off to make work, and if it doe…

Ok. how about your own very private VPN to a machine abroad somehwere ? I'm willing to host it for free for you if you play nice just to get you out of the bind you're in. Mail me if you're game.

Ok, mailed you back with access info, hope you got it!

Re: China is choking the Internet

#50

Post by xutopia »

grandalf wrote: post #28

Sign up for a $20 slice at slice host, install squid, and configure a ssh tunnel to it. Tell your browser to use the tunneled proxy. Voilà. Edit: just saw two others recommended this approach.

Actually don't use slicehost but a small time ISP that can offer this kind of service.
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