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First they came for the Iranians

scottaaronson.com

431–440 of 460 posts

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about trying to show that you're right rather than perpetuating baseless racism?

Why do I have to show you anything? Let's just make a vote on the issue.

Yeah, why back up our opinions with facts?

> Let's just make a vote on the issue.

We heard and discounted the opinions of those who though CERN would create a blackhole, or summon Cthulhu, why do your prejudices deserve a referendum?

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#432

Holy shit: > U.S. permanent residents (green card holders) who are outside of the United States may be barred from reentry. That's huge. I don't mean to diminish the importance of banning new immigrants and visitors on a religious basis, that's bad too. But banning people who have already legally immigrated from re-entering the country is completely nuts. There are no doubt people who have lived in this country for d…

I'm not sure if NIAC's analysis of the executive order is correct regarding this matter.

I would also question if the President can ban legal permanent residences of the country from re-entering simply based on where they were borned.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the executive's power. There is literally nothing that can be done about it for the next 4 years besides try to change Trump's mind (or pray he does something impeachable).

> pray he does something impeachable I think it's more than that, it has to be impeachable AND Senate Republicans have to dislike it enough to upset their boss, right? Without Senate Republicans' support there can be no impeachment hearing can there?

What if he blatantly breaks the law? Is there anything the supreme court can do?

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#434
post #426
post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly in the article are you referring to? He -- a former supreme court judge of one of the German states , not of Germany -- doesn't outright claim anything illegal was done. He sort of, fairly timidly, questions it, with the flimsiest of legal analogies: the legislature has to agree to military missions, e.g. participation in UN missions, and thus (?!) something something Merkel. It's a complete non-sequitur…

http://www.epochtimes.de/politik/deutschland/bundesverfassun...

That link is just a copy of this original article: http://info.kopp-verlag.de/hintergruende/deutschland/udo-ulf....

Now if you look into this Kopp Verlag, you will find that the Verfassungsschutz is keeping an eye on them because they might be spreading right-wing ideology which seeks to overthrow the constitutional structure of Germany.

Interesting source for claims of unconstitutional behavior by Merkel ^^.

Now I'm not saying that any of this necessarily makes what they say untrue, but I guess your choice of sources makes one thing clear: Nobody here will be able to convince you.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#435

Holy shit: > U.S. permanent residents (green card holders) who are outside of the United States may be barred from reentry. That's huge. I don't mean to diminish the importance of banning new immigrants and visitors on a religious basis, that's bad too. But banning people who have already legally immigrated from re-entering the country is completely nuts. There are no doubt people who have lived in this country for d…

I'm not sure if NIAC's analysis of the executive order is correct regarding this matter. I would also question if the President can ban legal permanent residences of the country from re-entering simply based on where they were borned.

I'm curious on what basis you doubt their claim. Because if the claim is true, there are many abroad who ought to board a plane home NOW.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do I have to show you anything? Let's just make a vote on the issue.

Yeah, why back up our opinions with facts? > Let's just make a vote on the issue. We heard and discounted the opinions of those who though CERN would create a blackhole, or summon Cthulhu, why do your prejudices deserve a referendum?

I don't expect you to switch to my side opinion-wise, just to outvote you.

You, however, could give it a shot, but didn't try.

I think you don't understand how not merely democracy, not merely human society, but the whole game theory works.

Yes you're going to eventually hold a referendum about CERN if it will continously raise worries, and no, you don't get to "discount" anything. You can try to defer this vote-casting, but, like Trump demonstrated, reality is a mean bitch and you'll end up paying for disregarding other people's opinions.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#437
post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You wish to tell me that the character of people is not based on religion in a theocracy, where the ruler is literally called "Supreme Leader of the Islamic Revolution"? Iran executes over 1000 people every year using very barbaric methods every year: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/07/irans-stagger... It does speak for itself that after thousands of years you ended up in one of the most backwards forms o…

There are various ways, my sweet little keyboard 'warrior' [1], to guage the character of a people. You could visit the country and get a feel for the people. Or if are averse to it -- which in your valiant case can not possibly be due to a deficit of courage -- you can google for travelogues of people who have and see what they say. [2] Or, you can take off your battle headdress and put on a scholarly cap, and refle…

> (How do you like it, my little warrior, getting groped by TSA agents? You enjoy that? Do you feel filled with the spirit of "the free and the brave" when you censor yourself on social media so you won't get harrassed at the border? Yes?)

Sorry to disappoint, I have never been groped by the TSA agents. Probably has something to do with the fact that I'm Russian and my travels to the US were strictly business, sponsored by a respected company.

That is also why I know a thing or two about authoritarianism and people that allow it, all the while suffering it's oppression.

> And there is this thing about civilizational ebb and flow but get back to me in a thousand years or so and we'll compare notes!

I'm back to you and we can start now since my country's been around for more than a thousand years. We both mainly export oil, we both live in countries under sanctions by the United States.

Mine is an authoritarian shithole, yours is even worse, and it shows right here - you resorting to ad hominems like "little keyboard warrior".

That about sums it up.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> pray he does something impeachable I think it's more than that, it has to be impeachable AND Senate Republicans have to dislike it enough to upset their boss, right? Without Senate Republicans' support there can be no impeachment hearing can there?

What if he blatantly breaks the law? Is there anything the supreme court can do?

They have no ability to bring a criminal case against anyone without the cooperation of the executive branch, which Trump controls.

Citizens could file civil lawsuits against the federal government to get injunctions against him. But even then I believe the only repercussion for him not following those injunctions would be Congress impeaching him.

Basically, in order to get charged with a crime the executive branch has to do it. Since the president is the head executive, there has to be a special case for him/her: Congress can bring charges I.e. impeachment proceedings.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument that it's clearly targeted at one individual religion doesn't stick that well. If that were true there were a lot of countries that are predominantly Muslim that were left off the list. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country Arguing a racial thing is a bit difficult as well as there were plenty of Arab countries that were left out. An interesting commonality is this: "What all seven countries als…

Great point, guildwriter. To extend that thought - it never ceases to amaze me the expectations people have regarding America. For example, if we were at war with China, Russia, whoever - no one would be shocked if those countries denied our citizens entry until the conflict was over. But reverse it and there is outrage. Similarly, I have no expectation that I would ever be able to, for example, travel to another cou…

Maybe because American citizens aren't tripping over themselves to immigrate to those countries? Also history has proven time and time again that prejudice against immigrants from American war enemies was always based on xenophobia and racism rather than legitimate security concerns. [0][1]

Regarding your second paragraph, what bizarro-America do you live in? That's exactly what happens to people who overstay their visas. You last sentence also betrays your own xenophobia: you associate people looking to "live the American dream" with wanting to violate the sovereignty of American.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-German_sentiment#United_S... [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_America...

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#440

What's more worrisome is how fervently anti-science the new administration is. Academics may eventually be persecuted in the US across the board - as they are already at the EPA, USDA etc - and regardless of citizenship. I firmly believe anyone with a brain should begin making contingency plans to regroup somewhere like Australia or Japan, outside of the reaches of far-right populism. An Erdogan-style academic purge…

Australia and Japan aren't fantastic examples. Canada works better.

I don't think we're far away enough
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