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First they came for the Iranians

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Re: First they came for the Iranians

#401

Post by fdschoeneman »

matt4077 wrote: post #255
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The language neither trivializes the Holocaust nor does it unfairly hitlerizes Trump. It describes what is going on in a way more of the general population can understand. There have been many populist governments around the world over time. Hitler wasn't the first to do that sort of thing. Unfortunately, not everyone remembers all the names or knows the history - so comparing him to a lesser-known leader (which he m…

There's a german saying: "It did happen and therefore it can happen again". That could be extended to "It did happen, and therefore it could happen anywhere". I'm also reminded of Hannah Arendt's theory of the "banality of evil". She basically warned against considering the Holocaust as the result of a singular set of circumstances, describing it instead as a process of many steps, by many (often unremarkable) people…

There's certainly value in being mindful of the Holocaust, and of the great capacity for evil, even if banal, inside of us all, and to acknowledge and fight against it each day. But I remain unconvinced that calling those I disagree with over legitimate policy concerns Hitler is either a) fair or b) particularly useful.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#402

Post by edmccard »

noobermin wrote: post #391
edmccard wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think it's fair to argue that it's a tenant of faith for liberals that all conservatives hate gays, hate minorities, hate women, etc. Well, to paraphrase your next sentence: "that these people exist in the Democratic party is impossible to deny, to tar and feather the entire Democratic party as this way is how we get to the binary world view." In particular, I am a liberal in a rural Pennsylvania county that voted…

I'm going to diverge from the topic, but do you really think those jobs will return given the cheapness now of solar and natural gas? The market without strings won't revive coal.

>do you really think those jobs will return given the cheapness now of solar and natural gas?

In the county and state where I live (Somerset County, PA) the majority of coal production is metallurgical, so we are more sensitive to the demand for steel than to the price of natural gas.

That demand is on an uptick, so there are 4 new mines planned for PA (2 in my county)[1]. But there was a similar spike in demand back in 2008, which didn't end up making much of an impact on employment. For example, PBS coals, whose headquarters I drive past every day, had ~600 employees in 2008 when they were bought by Severstal (a Russian steel company), who planned on adding ~150 more jobs.[2] In 2014 they were acquired by Corsa Coals (from Canada), who laid off about 130 miners in 2015.[3]

TLDR: no I don't think those jobs will return.

[1] http://www.coalage.com/news/latest/5510-4-new-met-mines-plan...

[2] http://www.redorbit.com/news/business/1531216/russian_steelm...

[3] http://triblive.com/business/headlines/7530395-74/mines-coal...

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#403

Post by fdschoeneman »

StavrosK wrote: post #251
fdschoeneman wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh. Hyperbole bothers me. But as long as you're using a healthcare analogy, allow me to suggest the possibility of negative side effects to the strong medicine. For example it is widely accepted that antibiotics are currently overprescribed, making them less of a strong and powerful weapon against disease over time.

What are the negative side effects to protesting policies like this?

The negative effect isn't of protesting policies like this. It is of doing so in a way that is not fair to Mr Trump, and which allows other people to dismiss your protest as the whining of a not particularly sophisticated child.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#404

Post by morsch »

tiatia wrote: post #370
matt4077 wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll probably be unable to convince you with legal arguments, so maybe you should file a criminal complaint (which is easy and free) and let actual legal professionals make that determination. And before you accuse the system of justice of just being part of some sort of conspiracy, I'll add that there are plenty of examples of courts disagreeing with the administrations. Most recent examples I can think of is the fa…

No, actually you are right. You CANT convince me. Before I appreciate the legal opinion on some poster on ycombinator I prefer the opinion of a former German supreme court judge: https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article150947586/Mer...

What exactly in the article are you referring to? He -- a former supreme court judge of one of the German states, not of Germany -- doesn't outright claim anything illegal was done.

He sort of, fairly timidly, questions it, with the flimsiest of legal analogies: the legislature has to agree to military missions, e.g. participation in UN missions, and thus (?!) something something Merkel. It's a complete non-sequitur.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#405

Post by eternalban »

gspetr wrote: post #393
eternalban wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The character of the Iranian people is not based on politics du jour, or even religion for that matter. Our civilization has been around for a few thousands years and it speaks for itself. [p.s.] Here are the words of one of our noted poets. He was a ("scary") Muslim, living in 13th century. This is what he had to say and this is our creed: Adam's sons are the members of the same body Their creation from the same cla…

You wish to tell me that the character of people is not based on religion in a theocracy, where the ruler is literally called "Supreme Leader of the Islamic Revolution"? Iran executes over 1000 people every year using very barbaric methods every year: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/07/irans-stagger... It does speak for itself that after thousands of years you ended up in one of the most backwards forms o…

There are various ways, my sweet little keyboard 'warrior' [1], to guage the character of a people.

You could visit the country and get a feel for the people. Or if are averse to it -- which in your valiant case can not possibly be due to a deficit of courage -- you can google for travelogues of people who have and see what they say. [2]

Or, you can take off your battle headdress and put on a scholarly cap, and reflect on whether cultural, intellectual, and spiritual values and artifacts passed faithfuly from one generation to another are in any way significant in determining the character of a people.

Or, you can pause a bit and wonder why the regime in Iran is called "authoritarian". If a regime reflects the true character of the governed, would it be called "authoritarian" or "representative"? As our president likes to remind the nation, "torture works". It sure does.

But I have to hand it to Iranians back in the old country, they haven't just rolled over and certainly don't need people like you to be prompted into protesting against the regime's outrages. But you know, Iran has its neanderthal subclasses just like we do here in good old USA.

(How do you like it, my little warrior, getting groped by TSA agents? You enjoy that? Do you feel filled with the spirit of "the free and the brave" when you censor yourself on social media so you won't get harrassed at the border? Yes?)

> It does speak for itself that after thousands of years you ended up in one of the most backwards forms of government possible, though I'm not sure you realize the implications of what it speaks of.

There is some truth to that! I was a kid myself then but people who should have known better made some critical and catastrophic errors in judgment back in '78. Propaganda works wonders.

But you know what my sweet little warrior, it also doesn't speak well of the nominal allies of the prior regime that worked hand-in-hand behind the scene with the elements that are now ruling over the Iranian people.

And there is this thing about civilizational ebb and flow but get back to me in a thousand years or so and we'll compare notes!

[1]: per your profile: "As battle approaches, decorum departs."

[2]: here, let me google it for you: https://encrypted.google.com/search?hl=en&q=visit%20to%20Ira...

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#406

Post by rpiguy »

helpfulanon wrote: post #399
rpiguy wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No Republican was duped. He's doing exactly what he said he was going to do. Temporary ban on immigration, build a wall, take an axe to the bloated federal government, can the TPP, next week we should get our first conservative supreme court nominee. Even better it is driving leftists into a rage, showing everyone where the real bullying and violence comes from - the Left! I have never been more hopeful about the fut…

The pendulum swings both ways, and right now it is swinging faster and harder than ever before in this country. When it swings back, in a tsunami of the unrelenting rage and profound hatred for the other side, there will be blood. That is the future.

Possibly. Remember it is the right wingers with all the guns :-)

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#407

Post by nkurz »

jekdoce wrote: post #11

Advice from a high-level staffer for a Senator: There are two things that everyone concerned should be doing all the time right now, and they're by far the most important things. You should NOT be bothering with online petitions or emailing. 1. The best thing you can do to be heard and get your congressperson to pay attention is to have face-to-face time - if they have town halls, go to them. Go to their local office…

This process seems ripe for abuse. Phone calls do not necessarily come from the geographic area they appear to, and there likely aren't any legal consequences for lying about zip code.

How can this be both the most effective way to influence a politician, and at the same time not be subverted to the point that such feedback cannot be trusted? Are there other checks that are less obvious?

If what you say is true, I'd have to believe that lobbying groups are already abusing this, either by posing as people they are not, paying people to pose, or by paying actual constituents to express concerns on their behalf.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#408

Post by chillacy »

Amezarak wrote: post #236
guildwriter wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is being exacerbated by the increasing factionalism within the US itself. I'm starting to understand better and better why Washington warned us of political parties in his farwell address "Without looking forward to an extremity of this kind (which nevertheless ought not to be entirely out of sight) the common and continual mischiefs of the spirit of party are sufficient to make it the interest and the duty of a…

Washington's farewell address was a political speech. He was unequivocally a federalist, and his speech was aimed at suppressing anti-federalism. He basically believed there should be only one party - his and Hamilton/Adams' party. That's why very soon afterwards federalists in Congress passed laws allowing the President to imprison people for reporting truthfully what was happening in Congress (out of the fear it wo…

That's an interesting take, that's the first time I've heard of that interpretation. Is that the view of any specific authors?

I feel like Washington is extremely venerated, which makes me a bit suspicious. It's not quite a cult of personality like Stalin but nobody's perfect.

A accounts seem to imply that Washington was a reluctant leader who didn't want to get involved in politics: https://www.quora.com/Why-did-George-Washington-refuse-a-thi...

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#410

Post by chillacy »

andrewclunn wrote: post #22

I can see the point of a broad stroke policy that does not make exceptions, in that it makes enforcement that much easier. Of course whether there's an actual goal here or this is just posturing to make good on the "tough on immigration" campaign talk is anybody's guess.

If anything it would shine light on how our laws are for the most part unreasonably strict and don't reflect reality. Like speeding laws (autodriving cars are programmed to break them) or drug laws in some states.

https://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp...

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