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Felony Charges for 6 Reporters at Inauguration Protests

nytimes.com

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Re: Felony Charges for 6 Reporters at Inauguration Protests

#101

Post by mirimir »

rebuilder wrote: post #93
mirimir wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, taxing imports favors US-made stuff, which benefits US manufacturers. That's the point. Edit: ... That's the point of protectionism. I'm not arguing that it's the better policy. It's just what he seems to be doing. As with the flap over Carrier. As much as I disagree with much of Trump's plans, it is bizarre how US policy for decades aided manufacturers in exporting production overseas.

It doesn't benefit their employees, though, since consumer prices will rise as a result. As that happens, either the standard of living goes down, or wages go up, which raises consumer prices again. So far, the wealth of the majority of western population has been based on cheap consumer goods. Those goods are cheap because the people making them have a lower standard of living than the people buying them. So if Trum…

Maybe so. But there's also the issue of underemployment. It's a pretty good bet that the Americans who used to make steel and cars and stuff didn't earn more doing whatever they did after those jobs went south/overseas. And that's probably one of the reasons why they voted for Trump.

Re: Felony Charges for 6 Reporters at Inauguration Protests

#102

Post by flukus »

rebuilder wrote: post #93
mirimir wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, taxing imports favors US-made stuff, which benefits US manufacturers. That's the point. Edit: ... That's the point of protectionism. I'm not arguing that it's the better policy. It's just what he seems to be doing. As with the flap over Carrier. As much as I disagree with much of Trump's plans, it is bizarre how US policy for decades aided manufacturers in exporting production overseas.

It doesn't benefit their employees, though, since consumer prices will rise as a result. As that happens, either the standard of living goes down, or wages go up, which raises consumer prices again. So far, the wealth of the majority of western population has been based on cheap consumer goods. Those goods are cheap because the people making them have a lower standard of living than the people buying them. So if Trum…

If it's beneficial then why do we have to spend years negotiating complex trad deals instead of just lowering tariffs?

Re: Felony Charges for 6 Reporters at Inauguration Protests

#103

Post by rebuilder »

rebuilder wrote: post #91
warbiscuit wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that a typo? Shouldn't he be taxing exports? Taxes on imports just raise the price for Americans, it's taxes on exports that would bring money into America.

It's an import tax he's talking about. Presumably the idea is that US producers will gain from decreased Mexican imports. How that will help pay for the wall I don't know. Honestly, I'm not sure it's worth it trying to analyze Trump's policy at this point. He seems to have taken a page from the Russian playbook, in that he seems intentionally chaotic and unpredictable, in order to keep the opposition reactive.

Ok, having done a bit of morning reading, I'm inclined to think the tax is a red herring. This is about the wall. Trump wants to get started with building it, maybe to be seen keeping his promises, maybe because it'll employ US workers. But it's expensive, so he needs some story for how it's going to be paid for, specifically how Mexico will pay for it. Even if that doesn't pan out, by the time it's clear the cost was paid by the US taxpayer, he'll have moved onto bigger things that will distract from the issue.

Alternatively, I'm wrong, and the wall really is just a huge put-on, used as leverage against e.g. the mexicans, or part of a more obscure campaign.

Re: Felony Charges for 6 Reporters at Inauguration Protests

#104

Post by curiousgeorgio »

rootlocus wrote: post #96
curiousgeorgio wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a few ideas off the top of my head (I'm sure there are a lot of other sources as well): - Interview people who were there about what the journalists were actually doing and what happened when they were detained - Mention the political background of the reporters and/or any history of participating in protests - Explore legal precedents and ask experts to help explain why they may have been arrested - At least me…

> Interview people who were there about what the journalists were actually doing and what happened when they were detained Where do you find these people? I assume the piece was written after the protest was over, so there's no way to confirm who was there, and if their story is true. Even so, here's what the article says: >> Witnesses reported that sweeping arrests during the parade targeted rioters, protesters and…

> The accused have denied participation and "organizations dedicated to press freedom" (are they experts?) have denounced the charges

I'm pretty sure that, by definition, those would probably be the most biased source you could possibly find. So no, not experts for the sake of balanced reporting. If the article is going to include their opinions, it might as well include the opinion of a random police officer, or at least a lawyer who has dealt with similar cases.

> Guilty until proven innocent?

Nobody said that or implied it. Trump may be president, but in case you weren't aware, the country's legal and judicial systems are no different now than they were a week ago.

What I am saying is that fair journalism shouldn't assume either guilt or innocence in the absence of facts. If you disagree with that then I'm not sure there's much I can say or do to convince you otherwise.

Re: Felony Charges for 6 Reporters at Inauguration Protests

#106

Post by problems »

flukus wrote: post #102
rebuilder wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't benefit their employees, though, since consumer prices will rise as a result. As that happens, either the standard of living goes down, or wages go up, which raises consumer prices again. So far, the wealth of the majority of western population has been based on cheap consumer goods. Those goods are cheap because the people making them have a lower standard of living than the people buying them. So if Trum…

If it's beneficial then why do we have to spend years negotiating complex trad deals instead of just lowering tariffs?

Economists have for many years argued we should do just that.

Re: Felony Charges for 6 Reporters at Inauguration Protests

#107

Post by fixxer »

huragok wrote: post #100
fixxer wrote: post #79

C'mon mods. Time for another moratorium on politics.

"Let's not confront greater society, let's just focus on bread and circuses."

Yeah, right. We're going to solve problems by using an internet forum. Wake the fuck up.

Re: Felony Charges for 6 Reporters at Inauguration Protests

#108

Post by [deleted] »

huragok wrote: post #92
olalonde wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a pretty uncharitable interpretation of parent's comment. I read it as "to protect bystanders and property from the mob [that was violent]". And his point seemed to be that police being "noticeably absent" from peaceful protests is more simply explained by the fact that those protests were peaceful rather than police presence being the source of violence. Police brutality is a real issue but indiscriminately b…

> Police brutality is a real problem but blindly blaming the police every time they show up doesn't help the cause. Let's not give the police the benefit of the doubt. Time and time again across the nation it has been shown that law enforcement is not for the populace-at-large but for the betterment of the state and its agenda - whoever the party in charge.

[deleted]

Re: Felony Charges for 6 Reporters at Inauguration Protests

#109

Post by problems »

mirimir wrote: post #101
rebuilder wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't benefit their employees, though, since consumer prices will rise as a result. As that happens, either the standard of living goes down, or wages go up, which raises consumer prices again. So far, the wealth of the majority of western population has been based on cheap consumer goods. Those goods are cheap because the people making them have a lower standard of living than the people buying them. So if Trum…

Maybe so. But there's also the issue of underemployment. It's a pretty good bet that the Americans who used to make steel and cars and stuff didn't earn more doing whatever they did after those jobs went south/overseas. And that's probably one of the reasons why they voted for Trump.

Yeah, they were talking about this on Freakonomics yesterday - a lot of those people working steel or textiles wound up in low paying retail or service sector jobs.

Some of those jobs might come back. Maybe not as numerous due to automation and stuff, but it might be something at least.

Hmm, maybe I should switch to microcontroller programming...

Re: Felony Charges for 6 Reporters at Inauguration Protests

#110

Post by grokkable »

fixxer wrote: post #79

C'mon mods. Time for another moratorium on politics.

The wikipedia entry for Hacker News needs to be changed. It currently reads:

"Hacker News is a social news website focusing on computer science and entrepreneurship."

Politics needs to be added. What a fucking joke. Someone regex the submissions.

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