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Felony Charges for 6 Reporters at Inauguration Protests

nytimes.com

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Re: Felony Charges for 6 Reporters at Inauguration Protests

#91

Post by rebuilder »

warbiscuit wrote: post #37
problems wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He'll be lucky to get the 20% tariff on Mexican imports he currently wants. I'll be surprised if he manages to do anything seriously speech crippling.

Is that a typo? Shouldn't he be taxing exports? Taxes on imports just raise the price for Americans, it's taxes on exports that would bring money into America.

It's an import tax he's talking about. Presumably the idea is that US producers will gain from decreased Mexican imports. How that will help pay for the wall I don't know.

Honestly, I'm not sure it's worth it trying to analyze Trump's policy at this point. He seems to have taken a page from the Russian playbook, in that he seems intentionally chaotic and unpredictable, in order to keep the opposition reactive.

Re: Felony Charges for 6 Reporters at Inauguration Protests

#92

Post by huragok »

olalonde wrote: post #88
huragok wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

99% of people walk a march and 1% torch private property (a limousine): clearly the "mob" is in the wrong.

That's a pretty uncharitable interpretation of parent's comment. I read it as "to protect bystanders and property from the mob [that was violent]". And his point seemed to be that police being "noticeably absent" from peaceful protests is more simply explained by the fact that those protests were peaceful rather than police presence being the source of violence. Police brutality is a real issue but indiscriminately b…

> Police brutality is a real problem but blindly blaming the police every time they show up doesn't help the cause.

Let's not give the police the benefit of the doubt. Time and time again across the nation it has been shown that law enforcement is not for the populace-at-large but for the betterment of the state and its agenda - whoever the party in charge.

Re: Felony Charges for 6 Reporters at Inauguration Protests

#93

Post by rebuilder »

mirimir wrote: post #81
warbiscuit wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that a typo? Shouldn't he be taxing exports? Taxes on imports just raise the price for Americans, it's taxes on exports that would bring money into America.

No, taxing imports favors US-made stuff, which benefits US manufacturers. That's the point. Edit: ... That's the point of protectionism. I'm not arguing that it's the better policy. It's just what he seems to be doing. As with the flap over Carrier. As much as I disagree with much of Trump's plans, it is bizarre how US policy for decades aided manufacturers in exporting production overseas.

It doesn't benefit their employees, though, since consumer prices will rise as a result. As that happens, either the standard of living goes down, or wages go up, which raises consumer prices again.

So far, the wealth of the majority of western population has been based on cheap consumer goods. Those goods are cheap because the people making them have a lower standard of living than the people buying them. So if Trump reduces imports, that implies that to keep cheap goods, the standard of living for the portion of US population producing those goods must go down relative to the rest of the population.

Automation can alter that to a great extent, but the profits from that may just go to the owner class, not the workers.

Re: Felony Charges for 6 Reporters at Inauguration Protests

#94

Post by jeffdavis »

brndnmtthws wrote: post #58
jeffdavis wrote: post #8

This kind of reporting encourages people to form opinions before the facts are in. None of us know what really happened there, but it will probably get sorted out soon. By that time, it's too late because we've already jumped to a conclusion.

I was there. Protests were peaceful, until the cops started throwing grenades and arresting folks. I took some photos from a distance[1], and also posted a couple videos to twitter[2][3]. There was a heavy police presence on Friday (inauguration day), which was in stark contrast to Saturday (the Women's March), in which the police were noticeably absent. Not surprisingly, there was no violence during the Women's Marc…

Thank you for the report. But without specifics about the circumstances of the arrest I still can't make an informed opinion yet.

Re: Felony Charges for 6 Reporters at Inauguration Protests

#95

Post by jeffdavis »

huragok wrote: post #84
Meekro wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're saying that the police antagonized people, and that made them so angry that they set a limo on fire? That doesn't ring true to me. It makes much more sense the other way: the police were there because they were needed, to protect bystanders and property from the mob.

99% of people walk a march and 1% torch private property (a limousine): clearly the "mob" is in the wrong.

Do you have evidence that the police arrested the peaceful ones?

Re: Felony Charges for 6 Reporters at Inauguration Protests

#96

Post by rootlocus »

curiousgeorgio wrote: post #61
shadowmint wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well then, how would you report on it in a way that is appropriate? Just... don't tell anyone anything until March when we have more information? Come on, don't just complain. It's easy to complain! Everyone complains, all the time. It's totally non-constructive and achieves nothing. What's the right way of doing it, if this is the wrong way?

Just a few ideas off the top of my head (I'm sure there are a lot of other sources as well): - Interview people who were there about what the journalists were actually doing and what happened when they were detained - Mention the political background of the reporters and/or any history of participating in protests - Explore legal precedents and ask experts to help explain why they may have been arrested - At least me…

> Interview people who were there about what the journalists were actually doing and what happened when they were detained

Where do you find these people? I assume the piece was written after the protest was over, so there's no way to confirm who was there, and if their story is true. Even so, here's what the article says:

>> Witnesses reported that sweeping arrests during the parade targeted rioters, protesters and journalists indiscriminately.

> Mention the political background of the reporters and/or any history of participating in protests

Ok, great. However, I'm pretty sure if one of the reporters had prior incidents with protests, that would surface pretty quickly. It could be that there's no reason to mention the lack of prior incidents.

> Explore legal precedents and ask experts to help explain why they may have been arrested

What are the experts in these situations? Here's (another) quote from the article:

>> The charges against the journalists — Evan Engel, Alexander Rubinstein, Jack Keller, Matthew Hopard, Shay Horse and Aaron Cantu — have been denounced by organizations dedicated to press freedom. All of those arrested have denied participating in the violence.

The accused have denied participation and "organizations dedicated to press freedom" (are they experts?) have denounced the charges.

> At least mention the fact that if we don't know all the facts, we can't assume they were wrongfully charged

Guilty until proven innocent? That's a troubling attitude to take, especially with all the uncertainties the new Trump administration brings.

Re: Felony Charges for 6 Reporters at Inauguration Protests

#97

Post by jeffdavis »

pcr0 wrote: post #24
jeffdavis wrote: post #8

This kind of reporting encourages people to form opinions before the facts are in. None of us know what really happened there, but it will probably get sorted out soon. By that time, it's too late because we've already jumped to a conclusion.

Sorted out soon? The reporters have court dates set in mid-February and March[0]. Now every other reporter is under the chilling effect of knowing they might arrested and taken to court for simply covering a protest. [0]: https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/jan/24/journalists-ch...

Being falsely arrested raises the profile of a journalist without much of a downside. I doubt it will have a chilling effect.

Re: Felony Charges for 6 Reporters at Inauguration Protests

#98

Post by jeffdavis »

colemickens wrote: post #47
curiousgeorgio wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that right there is the sad part. People actually believe that line makes a news piece fair and objective. It's lazy journalism, especially given the headline. News flash: when asked about these kinds of things, it's very common for the police to decline to comment. The job of a reporter doesn't (or shouldn't) stop there. Sorry, you don't just get to say, "this side of the story was easy to write, so we wrote it;…

So no one can report on anything when the authority with power refuse to comment on why they imprisoned a citizen? How does that work exactly?

The police will make their case at a public trial where all sides can present evidence. That's the best system we've come up with for arriving at the truth.

Unfortunately, it requires a bit of patience (weeks or maybe a few months).

Re: Felony Charges for 6 Reporters at Inauguration Protests

#99

Post by jeffdavis »

shadowmint wrote: post #41
curiousgeorgio wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that right there is the sad part. People actually believe that line makes a news piece fair and objective. It's lazy journalism, especially given the headline. News flash: when asked about these kinds of things, it's very common for the police to decline to comment. The job of a reporter doesn't (or shouldn't) stop there. Sorry, you don't just get to say, "this side of the story was easy to write, so we wrote it;…

Well then, how would you report on it in a way that is appropriate? Just... don't tell anyone anything until March when we have more information? Come on, don't just complain. It's easy to complain! Everyone complains, all the time. It's totally non-constructive and achieves nothing. What's the right way of doing it, if this is the wrong way?

What's so bad about waiting until March?
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