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First they came for the Iranians

scottaaronson.com

381–390 of 460 posts

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#381

> First they came for the Iranians No, first they came for the immigrants, muslims, women, and leftists with this guys good conscience. Then Trump was elected on those premises and came for the Iranians. But somehow he's surprised when it affects him personally?

Following your logic: they literally came before Trump was elected, so they must have done so during Obama's term.

Was Obama the one who came for "immigrants, muslims, women, and leftists with this guys good conscience"?

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Mexican friend visited with my fiancé (who is Jewish) and was detained, and then subsequently released over 6 times in a two week period without any warning, being questioned "are you Palestinian? Are you Muslim? What are you doing here?" I don't think the point is about the citizens themselves, it's about how they normalize this kind of behavior by their police / government.

Unfortunately that's what happens when your state is under constant threat. Yes, the IDF and Israeli security forces do use profiling and I'm not saying I'm a fan. But they are the best in the world. They're very good at extracting information. I don't agree with that kind of behavior either frankly, but it's a wonder the country is as safe as it is under constant threat. It's kind of a no-win situation for them. If…

>They're very good at extracting information.

That's a very nasty way of trivializing the use torture. http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.757404

Methods like that do in no way help with any of the two sides getting closer to each other, they only serve to radicalize both sides even more.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a former autoworker refuses to move to where the jobs are, and refuses to work in landscaping/elder care/other field that isn't dying, their plight is their fault.

It seems like the thrust of your comments in this thread is that some people are better than others. That is to say they are more moral, more intelligent, harder working, or whatever else. Fair enough. What conclusion -- be it a policy decision, social structure, general attitude toward the world or whatever else -- does this line of thinking lead you to?

As it relates to this conversation, we should recognize that this invalidates the concerns you raised in this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13490323

Specifically, those people are morally deaf, and we should recognize that their immediate problems are their own fault. The difficult but clear solution is for them to fix their own problems, and the rest of us should feel no particular obligation to take any action to help them (particularly if they are unwilling to help themselves).

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#384
post #374
post #301

Wow. This is more hostile than I ever imagined. Banning 70 million people from Iran when there is no terrorism link for the country is, at best, idiotic. (Iran is anti-ISIS and apart from its conflict with the US has no precedent of terrorism) I'm really speechless.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_terro... In July 2012, the United States State Department released a report on terrorism around the world in 2011. The report states that "Iran remained an active state sponsor of terrorism in 2011 and increased its terrorist-related activity" and that "Iran also continued to provide financial, material, and logistical support for terrorist and militant groups th…

That is likely for theirbsupport of Hamas for their role in trying to expand their hegemony in the Middle East and their conflicts with Saudia Arabia and Israel. Iran is not a part of global jihad.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately that's what happens when your state is under constant threat. Yes, the IDF and Israeli security forces do use profiling and I'm not saying I'm a fan. But they are the best in the world. They're very good at extracting information. I don't agree with that kind of behavior either frankly, but it's a wonder the country is as safe as it is under constant threat. It's kind of a no-win situation for them. If…

>They're very good at extracting information. That's a very nasty way of trivializing the use torture. http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.757404 Methods like that do in no way help with any of the two sides getting closer to each other, they only serve to radicalize both sides even more.

Sure, I agree with you.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure Spencer got punched in the face because he's a Nazi. As for the rest of it, it's a little hilarious to act like the non violent protests aren't the majority of activity. Just the Women's marches (which aren't just about Trump but are obviously responsive to his presidency) were more in number, both location wise and participation wise, than any violent actions that have happened. If you want to limit…

You can't just punch people in the face because they're Nazis. There's no way to do that that doesn't lead to an escalating violence cycle.

> You can't just punch people in the face because they're Nazis

Sure you can.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#387
post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If Trump's draft executive order had said something like "permanent ban of all Muslims" then I have no doubts people would start protesting immediately. That's why it doesn't say that. You start with seven countries, then add five more ("I didn't protest the first seven, why would I protest five?") then a few more, and pretty soon, you got all Muslim countries. It's barely been a week and it's already seven, I imag…

> It's barely been a week and it's already seven, I imagine the entire set of Muslim countries can't take more than a month or two. Without further evidence that this is a stable pattern, you appear to be succumbing to this: https://www.xkcd.com/605/

Why should we not consider that he called for a "ban on Muslims entering the United States" for months prior to his election? This is what he ran on so of course we have reason to suspect this will be a pattern.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#388
post #358
post #12

I abhor Trump, but something about this statement irks me: > To the Trump regime, I make one request: if you ever decide that it’s the policy of the US government to deport my PhD students, then deport me first. I’m practically begging you: come to my house, arrest me, revoke my citizenship, and tear up the awards I’ve accepted at the White House and the State Department. I’d consider that to be the greatest honor of…

Re: #1, both of my senators' numbers terminate in a recording that asks me to leave a message with my contact information. I have a hard time believing anybody listens to these. Am I wrong? More broadly, I talked to one person at the office of one my state's reps. I complained about this order and said I hoped the rep would voice his opposition, and the person said the rep would. But how much does that matter, especi…

Pressure. It may not not be as politically effective, but the weakling Dems need to be pushed in order to fight for us.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#389
post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there is a shortage, then why aren't they paid more highly and treated better?

Because if you want to actually do science it doesn't really produce profit, it produces knowledge and results which someone else may use for profit decades or centuries later and the idea of "shortages" or "supply" or "demand" are all ideas that come from the market which is not relevant here. There's high pay for brilliant scientists who want to work on weapons manufacturing or oil drilling or high frequency tradin…

Then it sounds like we should be fixing the funding issue, not importing cheap labor to work in bad conditions.

Nevertheless, BLS statistics tell a different story.

https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2015/article/stem-crisis-or-ste...

For most Ph.D.’s, the United States has a surplus of workers, especially in tenure-track positions in academia. The exceptions are certain fields within industry, such as petroleum engineering, process engineering, and computer engineering, and other fields in the government sector, such as nuclear engineering, materials science, and thermohydraulic engineering. Academia tends to absorb the Ph.D.’s who are unable to find positions in industry into postdoc positions. At the bachelor’s and master’s levels, there is consistent demand for employees in software development, as well as in high-growth areas such as mobile application development, data science, and petroleum engineering.

Generally speaking, there is a large surplus of science graduates, and many cannot find a job in their field and are looking to transition into other fields like software development.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#390
post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_terro... In July 2012, the United States State Department released a report on terrorism around the world in 2011. The report states that "Iran remained an active state sponsor of terrorism in 2011 and increased its terrorist-related activity" and that "Iran also continued to provide financial, material, and logistical support for terrorist and militant groups th…

That is likely for theirbsupport of Hamas for their role in trying to expand their hegemony in the Middle East and their conflicts with Saudia Arabia and Israel. Iran is not a part of global jihad.

Does any of this sound like it supports your viewpoint?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_thought_and_legacy_o...

Since his death, politics in the Islamic Republic of Iran have been "largely defined by attempts to claim Khomeini's legacy", according to at least one scholar, and "staying faithful to his ideology has been the litmus test for all political activity" there.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_thought_and_legacy_o...

Khomeini strongly supported the spread of Islam throughout the non-Muslim world.

    We shall export our revolution to the whole world. Until the cry 'There is no god but Allah' resounds over the whole world, there will be struggle.
... `We have often proclaimed this truth in our domestic and foreign policy, namely that we have set as our goal the world-wide spread of the influence of Islam and the suppression of the rule of the world conquerors ... We wish to cause the corrupt roots of Zionism, capitalism and Communism to wither throughout the world. We wish, as does God almighty, to destroy the systems which are based on these three foundations, and to promote the Islamic order of the Prophet ... in the world of arrogance.`
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