First they came for the Iranians • Hacker News Board

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#361

Post by some-guy » Thu, Jan 26, 2017, 5:52 PM UTC

thebiglebrewski wrote: post #296

jpatokal wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israeli society, however, is increasingly less and less tolerant of non-Jews. For example: http://www.timesofisrael.com/chief-rabbi-non-jews-shouldnt-b... But an even bigger problem is going to be the Iranian government, which is really not keen on Iranians consorting with the Zionist entity. Even if the OP by some miracle managed to pull this off, they would run a very real risk of ending up in prison as a suspected…

Haha wow. Have you ever even been to Israel? Some of the most welcoming and loving people I've ever met. Sure, I'm Jewish, but I've also seen many average Israelis talk about their love for all and desire for peace. There are extremists in every community.

My Mexican friend visited with my fiancé (who is Jewish) and was detained, and then subsequently released over 6 times in a two week period without any warning, being questioned "are you Palestinian? Are you Muslim? What are you doing here?"

I don't think the point is about the citizens themselves, it's about how they normalize this kind of behavior by their police / government.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#362

Post by gspetr » Thu, Jan 26, 2017, 5:52 PM UTC

eternalban wrote: post #281

throwaway2131 wrote: post #27

I am an Iranian CS student. I had a fully funded PhD admission at one of the US universities. I was admitted for the Fall 2016 semester. I am currently in Iran due to my visa not being issued despite the 7 months I have waited for it. I was able to defer my admission to Spring 2017 semester, but then _this_ happened. I am quite sure that I will never be able to attend this program. I had very high hopes for my future…

As some have mentioned here, you have other options. Iranian-Americans have been making serious, world-class [1][2][3][4], contribution to American society in a variety of fields. America's loss is some other nations' gain. Just a small sample: [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Javan [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotfi_A._Zadeh [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nima_Arkani-Hamed [4]: https://en.wikipedia.o…

Foundations for the case you're trying to make are not very persuasive: 3 out of 4 people on this list seem to have moved during a much friendlier Shah's regime, before the 1979 revolution which turned Iran into a theocracy.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#363

Post by apatters » Thu, Jan 26, 2017, 5:56 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #287

guildwriter wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some Mexicans are willing to do what it takes. Don't overgeneralize. It's not like the entire population of Mexico is in the US right now. Races and nationalities are not homogeneous. Is there a segment of the population blaming others for their problems? Yes. Are they totally wrong? No. They're not entirely right but they aren't entirely wrong. Is it all self inflicted problems? Hell no. There is no way I would argu…

If a former autoworker refuses to move to where the jobs are, and refuses to work in landscaping/elder care/other field that isn't dying, their plight is their fault.

It seems like the thrust of your comments in this thread is that some people are better than others. That is to say they are more moral, more intelligent, harder working, or whatever else.

Fair enough. What conclusion -- be it a policy decision, social structure, general attitude toward the world or whatever else -- does this line of thinking lead you to?

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#364

Post by gspetr » Thu, Jan 26, 2017, 5:57 PM UTC

jkimmel wrote: post #45

throwaway2131 wrote: post #27

I am an Iranian CS student. I had a fully funded PhD admission at one of the US universities. I was admitted for the Fall 2016 semester. I am currently in Iran due to my visa not being issued despite the 7 months I have waited for it. I was able to defer my admission to Spring 2017 semester, but then _this_ happened. I am quite sure that I will never be able to attend this program. I had very high hopes for my future…

I am deeply saddened to read this. I apologize, on behalf of the country. Please know that the majority of people in the US do not support this policy. We want to see you reach your potential. We want to benefit from the talent you would bring. Many of us will be working hard to fix this for the next several years. I'm sorry I couldn't do more to prevent it from happening in the first place.

> Please know that the majority of people in the US do not support this policy.

This seems to be false:

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-taps-americans-war...

In the poll, 54 percent of Americans, including about three-quarters of Republicans, about half of independents and over a third of Democrats, said the United States takes in too many immigrants from the Middle East.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/curr...

Among all voters, 46% favor a temporary ban on Muslims entering the United States, while 40% are opposed. Fourteen percent (14%) are undecided.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#365

Post by stefantalpalaru » Thu, Jan 26, 2017, 5:57 PM UTC

mmrezaie wrote: post #186

How come this post went from "the top" to "where I cannot find it anymore"!?

The people in charge use algorithms for hiding "controversial" threads. Controversy is bad for business and this is a business, regardless of how 99% of us use this forum.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#366

Post by eternalban » Thu, Jan 26, 2017, 5:59 PM UTC

gspetr wrote: post #362

eternalban wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As some have mentioned here, you have other options. Iranian-Americans have been making serious, world-class [1][2][3][4], contribution to American society in a variety of fields. America's loss is some other nations' gain. Just a small sample: [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Javan [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotfi_A._Zadeh [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nima_Arkani-Hamed [4]: https://en.wikipedia.o…

Foundations for the case you're trying to make are not very persuasive: 3 out of 4 people on this list seem to have moved during a much friendlier Shah's regime, before the 1979 revolution which turned Iran into a theocracy.

The character of the Iranian people is not based on politics du jour, or even religion for that matter. Our civilization has been around for a few thousands years and it speaks for itself.

[p.s.]

Here are the words of one of our noted poets. He was a ("scary") Muslim, living in 13th century. This is what he had to say and this is our creed:

    Adam's sons are the members of the same body
    Their creation from the same clay
    Should one organ be troubled by pain
    Others would suffer severe strain
    You who are careless of people's suffering
    Deserve not the name, "human being"!

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saadi_Shirazi

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#367

Post by stefantalpalaru » Thu, Jan 26, 2017, 6:01 PM UTC

This is bad, but the alternative was worse: https://www.reddit.com/r/DNCleaks/comments/5945ho/hillary_ju...

[remember not to vote on Reddit if you land with an external HTTP Referer or you risk being banned for 3 days on the whole site for participating in a "voting brigade"]

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#368

Post by thebiglebrewski » Thu, Jan 26, 2017, 6:07 PM UTC

some-guy wrote: post #361

thebiglebrewski wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha wow. Have you ever even been to Israel? Some of the most welcoming and loving people I've ever met. Sure, I'm Jewish, but I've also seen many average Israelis talk about their love for all and desire for peace. There are extremists in every community.

My Mexican friend visited with my fiancé (who is Jewish) and was detained, and then subsequently released over 6 times in a two week period without any warning, being questioned "are you Palestinian? Are you Muslim? What are you doing here?" I don't think the point is about the citizens themselves, it's about how they normalize this kind of behavior by their police / government.

Unfortunately that's what happens when your state is under constant threat. Yes, the IDF and Israeli security forces do use profiling and I'm not saying I'm a fan. But they are the best in the world. They're very good at extracting information.

I don't agree with that kind of behavior either frankly, but it's a wonder the country is as safe as it is under constant threat. It's kind of a no-win situation for them. If they don't do that and are overcautious, they get attacked more. If they do, they get attacked for doing it.

I'm sorry for what happened to your Mexican friend and I hope he receives better treatment in the future.

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#369

Post by gspetr » Thu, Jan 26, 2017, 6:13 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #252

guildwriter wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You realize that the sunk cost fallacy proves what I'm trying to say? Most people really struggle with that sort of thing. It's one of the reasons why behavioral economics has taken off in recent history. People are not perfect actors. Of course there are people with problems who don't turn to drugs that are also poor. The point I'm trying to make is that saying the best and only solution isn't necessarily to say tha…

...the cost of living they are willing to put up with, and the work they are willing to do...people in America are not willing to do backbreaking labor like picking fruit? Yes, Mexicans are willing to do what it takes, while many Trump voters prefer to sit at home refusing to work and doing meth. I was making the following core points: 1) the Trump voters apatters was defending suffer mainly from self-inflicted probl…

> Yes, Mexicans are willing to do what it takes

Textbook case of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias

Re: First they came for the Iranians

#370

Post by tiatia » Thu, Jan 26, 2017, 6:16 PM UTC

matt4077 wrote: post #264

tiatia wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In the specific moment you're alluding to she made the decision to suspend the Dublin rules because they were clearly failing" The problem with "making the decision" is that there is no executive order for the German chancellor, as apposed to the US president in the German constitution. Ruling by chancellor decree had fallen out of favor in Germany in the last 70 years. Ms. Merkel with her dubious past with East Ger…

I'll probably be unable to convince you with legal arguments, so maybe you should file a criminal complaint (which is easy and free) and let actual legal professionals make that determination. And before you accuse the system of justice of just being part of some sort of conspiracy, I'll add that there are plenty of examples of courts disagreeing with the administrations. Most recent examples I can think of is the fa…

No, actually you are right. You CANT convince me. Before I appreciate the legal opinion on some poster on ycombinator I prefer the opinion of a former German supreme court judge: https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article150947586/Mer...